Maximizing Technology and Human Behavior – Justin Jones of Internet Marketing Expert Group

Justin Jones, CEO and Founder of Internet Marketing Expert Group

Justin Jones, the CEO and Founder of Internet Marketing Expert Group, grew his company’s revenue from $3.1m in 2014 to $5.1m in 2017, a 66% increase.  

Internet Marketing Expert Group is a tourism/destination marketing agency.  

In this interview with Eversprint‘s Malcolm Lui, Justin shares how he and his team accelerated their high value sales by:  

  • Solving problems and providing results that their client values most (and it’s not always more revenue and more profits).  
  • Proactively asking for referrals 6 to 8 months into their relationship, after they’ve generated results.  
  • Preferring to work on long term projects with clients as partners, as opposed to one-off projects.  

Internet Marketing Expert Group Interview - (computer generated transcript) (transcribed by Sonix)

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Malcolm Lui: Welcome to the High Value Sales Show of I'm Malcolm Lui, the Managing Member of Eversprint, and today we're speaking with Justin Jones, the CEO and Founder of Internet Marketing Expert Group a tourism/destination marketing agency. Welcome to the call Justin.

Justin Jones: Hello. Thanks for having me.

Malcolm Lui: Justin you grew your company's revenue from $3.1 million dollars in 2014 to $5.1 million in 2017, a 66% increase. Before we talk about how you grew your company so fast, can you briefly share what your company does beyond my quick intro and how your company differs from the competition?

Justin Jones: Absolutely. So we have to call herself an Internet marketing company but really what. Internally we we think of herself is we learn to solve problems for businesses with the intention of growth. We end up many of the times doing marketing but kind of a difference that makes the difference isn't it. We have three core things that we revolve around. One there's not background in information technology my background and human behavior and psychology. So that enables us I think today any marketing company business to need to understand human behavior in technology if you can kind of mesh those two things together. I think you've got a unique proposition but I'm taking a little bit further I think marketing agencies are either very quiet numbers driven or very creative driven so they don't really understand the right version a would be they're not going to create and they're all about you know acquisition cost and CPA and CPM and those kind of things. And then the other side of the marketing agencies are you know they understand branding and slogans and those kind of thing. And I think in today's world I think you've always made this more so today you need a good combination of both good creative branding but also back those members because today with the data that's available with us when they market to people is so strong it's really easy to get like real short term numbers driven and not think about the long gravity of a brand and are thinking about the future.

Justin Jones: So to recap that In short technology I did that with with an anti business I had for a very long time. So I understand the technology understanding the business will be holding psychology understanding how people ask and it's hard to be and if you don't understand humans I think it's really hard to be a business. A lot of people don't think that way. But that's my belief. And then lastly would just be really focusing down on business. Sometimes we'll meet with clients and we don't hear really talk about marketing much. We found another issue in the business. So having a good understanding of core business skills and tools to help identify problems solve problems and really just listening to the problems that they may or may not even know that they have and then turning them into opportunities for both of us. So taking opportunities start taking problems turning them into opportunities for us and our clients. Kind of the wrong answer but that's that's kind of a difference it makes a difference in what we did.

Malcolm Lui: Well your answer may have answered my next question for you. My next question for you is going to be what were the three biggest drivers of your sales growth from 2014 to 2017. You were answered already Was that your technology your understanding of technology your understanding human behavior and how your business focuses on the problems

Justin Jones: Well

Malcolm Lui: That your clients

Justin Jones: We

Malcolm Lui: May have. Are there more to it

Justin Jones: Yeah I mean there are some questions that we ask internally. Yes those as well but there's there's maybe two missing parts. One would be a being really good at what we do and focusing down on like you know people always say add value to the clients but to add value value to me is my value to you. So getting in and understanding what is value and what the success look like for the client and then reverse engineering back from what people are used to that. So that may not apply to a little more sticky than others because you're not coming in and going hey how can we help you grow your social media hey how can we grow your your website traffic. Those are things we do and ridiculously good at. But that's not where we start. We always find out what problems are you having and then do we have a tool or resource to help you solve that. And with that said we have about 40 or plus tools that we use and some of the try someone up to help us solve those problems and if we can help you solve your problem we're very quick about saying we're not that comfortable for you. And if we know somebody who can help you we do that. We can't just say sorry and move on. So I think that when we've had a good recurring client base not a lot of churn in our business because of that. So that's one group driving factor. So debt load driving factor I believe would just be that we are because we do that we get a lot of referral business. We don't market much our selves. Our real problem has been we have a bottleneck that is me.

Their one bottleneck, and their three driving factors

Justin Jones: That's not something we're proud ever excited about but we're working through just that the strategy all comes from me. So we've actually could have grown a lot faster if we had marketed to ourselves and if we did not have the bottleneck of which as I said where we're like working through that's one of our core focuses in 2019. So we had really good growth because of that but we could have had a lot more if I wasn't the bottleneck and we were able to market ourselves because we had a scale problem. But the three driving factors to recap would just be great referral business. So we ask ourselves if every single bit of our future business were to have to come from repeat business how would I have to treat my clients what value would I have to add and then to make sure we get that. And then if all of our business had to come from referral business from their existing client base how what would we have to do what infrastructure would we have to build. What questions would we have to ask what tools would we have to have. So those are kind of the two driving factors with that. So really it's all been an internal growth as opposed to external. I don't really have any crazy like I had a social media campaign that's advertising campaigns we did that did that. But I think a lot of people missed that and they're always looking for that. You know. What little. Tactic can I use as a poster strategy of just getting more business from the people that's trying to do business with love and adore you already.

Malcolm Lui: Right. Okay. So let me clarify and recapping Nick you're on the same page. So the three most important factors that drove your growth and what you shared with me I think one key aspect is that you begin with the problem in the minds of the client more than anything else and figure out how you can solve that

Justin Jones: Yes.

Malcolm Lui: With whatever tools that you have available. So that's

Justin Jones: Absolutely.

Malcolm Lui: One. And then the second one would be when you do provide a solution you want to provide in such a way that such a fantastic job that your client to be more than throat to give you a referral

Justin Jones: Absolutely.

Malcolm Lui: Okay.

Justin Jones: You got it.

Malcolm Lui: And would you think it might be the third one behind all that third third driving factor

Justin Jones: The third driving factor would be looking at. So we covered the the bay become I think that Kevin's up in the fish a little wanna make sure because there's a little bit of a difference would be one we're looking for internal repeat business. So a quiet no child in the business where the client stays with you for a very long time so you get recurring revenue as opposed to they hire you for this deal and you'll hear something over again or a year later

Malcolm Lui: Right

Justin Jones: And then the other one would be that they refer you to other clients. And then the other one would be that you're just kind of came together we separated a little bit of just making it so there would be they would they would set it himself. I would have to be crazy to do business with anyone else and that comes from an internal sort of just. Well one is their values and then what tools do we what tools and skills do we need to make sure that we can continue doing that especially in today's you know marketing and business landscape. Things change really really quickly. So you've got to kind of really be looking around corners for what's going to happen next so you can be one step ahead. It's not your competition will be there and then not clients. Says oh this other company can do this can you. Oh no. We haven't even heard of it. So then you're kind of stuck. So

Malcolm Lui: Right.

Justin Jones: It's kind of the same thing but we look at internal and external How do I fulfill the client's values and how do I look around corners

Malcolm Lui: Right. OK.

Justin Jones: To see what's coming next

Malcolm Lui: Can you elaborate a little bit about how you go about figure out what the problem is from the clients perspective and what results they would like to see again from their perspective

Justin Jones: Yeah. Warren is asking that question with a whole list of series of questions that we ask to help identify the actual problem. So we kind of have like the short version of this because there's a series of you know 50 plus questions that we ask to get to the real recalls. So we're actually you know dying most seeing the actual problem not some symptoms so would be that kind of you imagine like Google Maps people always kind of have an idea of where they want to be but they don't understand where they are. So they kind of set these goals that are not really aligned with any type of road map. So those are great but only if you have a road map to get there and they have a road map you need to know where you are and where you want to be. So these questions help help a client figure out where they are and really where they want to be and then build a road map like you were using you know which Google Maps if it Miguel knows where you are and where you want to be. They can tell you step by step how to get there but if you tell them where you want to go but you're not clear on where you are. It's kind of hard for them to tell you where to go or about search you know where you're at. You're not clear where you be they can't really tell you.

Malcolm Lui: Right

What other people want isn't necessarily what you think they want

Justin Jones: So it's kind of the thing that I think is missing for most is knowing exactly where you are. The truth about where you are and the truth about where you want to be and for some people. Oddly enough I was kind of surprising to me is that growth is something for some people it's not really about the money it's about stealing the growth like we've had clients that literally when you dig down deep like it's more about how they're perceived in the community than it is about the actual money that they're making. Obviously they're not there to lose money but it's more like the perception. So we want to drive revenue. I mean that's my core values just driving actual real revenue that turns into profit. But some people are just into the revenue like they can make an extra two million dollars this year and only make fifty thousand dollars profit and are happy because in their mind they bring your company. To my knowledge then we have others here just like I don't care for their revenue at all. If I could just increase my profit so understand that because that's two core fundamentally different strategy but not trying not to inject our values into theirs about actual growing revenue and profit. Like we have one client now who's just about revenue and you know they could do another two million dollars you lose twenty thousand dollars and they would be OK with that because it makes them feel that their companies up to something. Offset in revenues are down. So it's a series of questions that we ask to help identify what is the values assessment to understand what in the business they really really value. And the second would be to help the other series of questions would be to help identify the actual problem in the business

Malcolm Lui: Right. OK. Now can you elaborate a bit more about your drive to get the referrals from the clients which in large part it's driven by one making it crazy for them to consider anyone else to work with. Can you share a little bit as to how you go about getting rich through is it a proactive process on your part. You do you literally ask for the referral or

Justin Jones: Just

Malcolm Lui: The more passive

Justin Jones: Ask. You know sometimes there's a little bit of a conflict because like wood you know they're in a market because we're kind of destination driven with our curves and stuff. We do some other stuff outside of tourism destination marketing but the majority of it consumer is just asking them hey do you know nobody owns a business. Yeah they buy that much of other business. Yes. Who are they. And

Malcolm Lui: A

Justin Jones: Then they pass the referral.

Malcolm Lui: Okay. You did this on a regular basis.

Justin Jones: We do this pretty much after about six to eight months in because if you ask a lot of sales training ask like the moment you closed the deal you ask for the referral. I'm sure in some businesses that works and ours works were kind of you know. We're not a thousand dollar ticket item I mean our clients are usually spending you know you know tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of dollars a year with us. So I hate to ask that. Quick. I'd like to ask after I know that they've seen that our stuff works. So it also kind of if they aren't happy three or four months and They did refer one of their best friends and now you potential there's two classes of this country and they call our friend and go home. Sorry I referred to you to these this company I'm going with somebody else you may want to consider it too so I like to wait about security months. It's typically in our business in six or eight months. I can pretty much predict if there you know a very long term client after a short term client just because we don't believe what they believe and so on.

Malcolm Lui: Right

Justin Jones: So really really just ask that knowing when to ask. I don't like to offer and I know that they believe what we believe

Malcolm Lui: Right. Okay. And it will be on your To Do list at six eight months now.

Justin Jones: Yes yes

Malcolm Lui: Okay. Awesome. Now you mentioned before also how you know you're looking internally to do to help your clients in some way shape or form that gives you repeat recurring business. Does that mean that you will decline to do one off projects

Repeat vs one-off projects

Justin Jones: We don't. The one we have been doing in the past. But we're very we're very picky on those just to make sure because we like partnerships we call and partnerships we like partnerships with our clients as opposed to just like hey you hire us and use us for a campaign. So if the campaign is large enough we would definitely do it or if it fixes the problem because most of the time businesses problems are they lack consistency they don't lack intensity. So we like more consistency over intensity and the definition of that would be oh sales are down let's call so-and-so and let's get themselves oh sales are up again we don't need them anymore. We like the consistency because I believe growing the business is like going to the gym. You know I can't do 20000 pushups today and become healthy now. I can be 20 thousand pushups over the course of a year and continue to do that can the rest of my life become healthy when I can't wake up today and do 20000 pushups and then I go to the doctor two years later he's a guy you're unhealthy again. Oh no problem only twenty thousand pushups. I'll be good tomorrow. I don't think that's how business works. There are some times you need that but it's very few. So we would talk right into the category of they don't believe what we believe. We believe consistency over intensity. Not that we rule out intensity is not a good thing. You need that sometimes but it's rare

Malcolm Lui: Okay. And the last point is as a driver it's almost like driver number four when you said to make it crazy for clients to do business someone else and also staying one step ahead of the competition. Looking around corners can you elaborate on that a little bit.

Justin Jones: Yeah. So the way we do that is we do a values assessment the values assessment. Here's kind of a little background. All humans live in a hierarchy of values fingerprint specific written about the state specific no two people have the same set of values. Typically a company whoever owns the company or the group that owns the company. The culture is driven by their hierarchy of values. If we understand their hierarchy of values we can communicate in those values. When you communicate in those values you increase the probability of adding value. And when you add value all humans no matter where you live where you're saying much about is how much money you have. All are driven by their hard core values and they make decisions based on where they see more benefits and drawbacks. If I can show you in your highest values more benefits and drawbacks and helps them serve you then you are more profitable to stay loyal and loyalty just means this ruffles a lot of feathers with people but no one is loyal to anyone they're only loyal to their highest values meaning that if I can fulfill your highest values you'll always be loyal to loyal to me. The moment I don't feel your highest values you won't be loyal to me anymore. So understanding their values through the questions that we ask so we truly understand their values and then communicating everything we do back into those highest values. Then you get a loyal that

Malcolm Lui: Is

Justin Jones: They don't turn in the business

Malcolm Lui: Right. So this is where your behavioral understanding comes into play

Justin Jones: Yes

Malcolm Lui: Awesome. Now earlier in our conversation as well you mentioned them two challenges one that you're a bottleneck when it comes to developing strategy and then the second one it sounds like you haven't marketed your company all that much. Can you elaborate on those two.

Justin Jones: To that. Yeah. So kind of like the old saying goes you know the mechanic has the worst car we have we have no market ourself at all. We do amazing marketing for other people but we don't market ourself at all. And two reasons for that. One is we're so busy working on a client that a bottleneck. Second reason is because we started to do marketing about or six years ago and we scaled too quickly and we started to have a turn because we couldn't scale fast enough to keep up with the demand. So we started being not as good with our clients and not just communicating well with our clients. And we just couldn't scale that back. So we scaled back on marketing ourselves for that reason too. And we just kind of go completely back. So we didn't create all this churn that we put. In. We keep the mass majority 98 percent of our clients stay with us for a very long time. It was getting to the point where like maybe like 85 percent we're staying with us for that year that we did marketing. So we pulled back on that then the bottleneck with me is just on figuring out how to scale get what's in my head out and scalable and training system and process internally to make that happen. We're getting closer to that. We're not 100 percent there so the bottleneck still comes to me because as we bring on the client all that has to be filtered through me because I haven't processed and well systems and process to to scale what I know and that is in the process of being a copying. But we're still a little bit away from there but it is very much going to happen here in the near future just documenting everything. I'm like I'm in the process of writing a book. I'm in the process of documenting all this stuff out so everything that's in my head can be out and then others can do it.

Malcolm Lui: Give it an example of one of the processes and systems you have in your head that you're not that you're currently documenting and looking to train up others to execute

An example of a process in his head that he wants to document.

Justin Jones: Yes sir. So one is we base all of our pricing on value not on. Like for example social media knowledge not when we see our competitors bid on stuff like that against us. It's somewhere between 2000 3000 dollars a month for the type of clients we go after. Ours is five to six hundred and we're way better than that. That's not my opinion. The data shows that mean when you compare our social media efforts to others of our competitors we kill them. But there's a process I used to go through and figure out what the value of that is and if I want to make more money on social media helped increase the value that's

Malcolm Lui: Okay

Justin Jones: Kind of hard to talk about on this podcast. But basically I have a formula that I've built to figure out acquisition cost whether you can track revenue or you can't there's two models that's actually like one of attention driven CPM cost per thousand model versus the other and figuring out what you should be paying. But also we can analyze the marketing and figure out is this a good investment or not whether it's with us or with somebody else. I'm not all of confuse us for absolutely everything. We can handle all of our stuff and others to find out if there's an actual return on investment because we data all the attention. So we want to be able to see what the return on investment. So we look at ourself as more of a financial advisor. We're doing marketing but we look at it from the flat financial advisor standpoint to see what's the return on investment to do that. You have to know what the value is. So

Malcolm Lui: Right

Justin Jones: I built some special formulas to do that

Malcolm Lui: Right. The. The No side of it that you mentioned earlier in our conversation. So what are your plans going forward say in 2019. I know you want to debate and ask yourself what other kinds of marketing you think you're going to grow up for yourself.

Justin Jones: For our clients. We're constantly building tools that are specific to to us to help scale town. And then so getting more defined on those. Mike we've got two or three tools now that are great standalone products. But getting them to talk to each other. So it actually adds even more insights and value. The other part in 2019 would just be to the systems and processes internally ritual and more consistency across what we do. I think it's pretty consistent now but I think it could be more consistent taking me out of the bottleneck. I don't know if it'll happen this year maybe. I then the big thing is just continue to eat away at the systems and processes the writing of the book to let people know kind of how we work. It'll also help internally as well as externally. And then the other biggest thing that we've talked about internally we've just sort of been meeting about with a couple weeks ago was I was on building road maps for everything because we're were huge about having an idea but we don't build a roadmap to execute on that idea. So either the idea kind of falls apart halfway through and then you get completely executed on it or. We build the roadmap to the RBA and go Man off we won't take longer than my thoughts about helps us with time. So continuing with our good ideas but building actual roadmap. So we have an idea we say hey here's our view. And building roadmaps to all those ideas on is kind of a deal for 2014 that we talked about. More sense sense internal. But

Malcolm Lui: It

Justin Jones: How does that make sense to you and the audience.

Malcolm Lui: Now before you mentioned how you didn't want to do too much marketing for yourselves right now because you're concerned that you'll get too much demand and as you try to service

Justin Jones: Even

Malcolm Lui: The additional flow of clients the quality of service may fall and your churn rate may rise. Are you ready now to take on more clients and do some external marketing to bring them to

They've hired an appointment setter to target their dream clients.

Justin Jones: We are doing so. This year we actually hired a third party company to do two set meetings for myself and the other internal sales guy who is just a third party company going. We gave them our dream client list. They're going to be contacting them and setting meeting because our bottleneck is the setting of the meetings. So we're hoping this works instead of running direct mail or sometimes social media or FCO or ACM campaign. We actually just had a third party company who's going to directly contact our dream clients and set meetings with us so we can explain more about what we do. And that's worked in the past when we try on a small scale just our the time to make the phone calls. And Daniel in our office who's the other internal sales guy has no time to do that because we're managing existing client so much we can't make two or three hundred phone calls a day like needs to be done. So we've outsourced that. So it's a form of marketing but yes. Yes and b the short answer but it's more of our sales calls

Malcolm Lui: Ok. Have you has this third party company started setting appointments for you

Justin Jones: Than

Malcolm Lui: These phone call points are in office appointments

Justin Jones: Both. It depends. You know I mean we have clients all over the United States. So if they want to meet in person we'll go. But typically the initial phone call if we're not near them will happen on the phone. So all and yes that has started

Malcolm Lui: And harder results so far from that process.

Justin Jones: Really good really good. Our biggest problem in our business is the bottleneck of media and obscurity. It's kind of go hand in hand because it's the bottleneck and we're not obscure. It may create a churn problem we get a ton of clients but we lose them you know not all of them you know the losing 20 20 20 25 percent just because we can't keep up or if we take away the obscurity with a long term problem. And and I'm more of a guy who wants you know I want you to be a client forever because it's a partnership. So I don't like the. Instead of getting one hundred thousand dollars a day. Sorry a hundred thousand dollars from me one time I want two or three thousand large amounts me the rest of your life so I

Malcolm Lui: Right.

Justin Jones: Can help you

Malcolm Lui: Right

Justin Jones: And

Malcolm Lui: Client

Justin Jones: Stay a

Malcolm Lui: For life

Justin Jones: Part of the

Malcolm Lui: Yet. Now you said before obscurity Can you find out a bit more

Justin Jones: No matter how good or bad your product is. The first thing you're going to have is attention you're gonna have some guy's attention to tell a that you whether that be your products good or bad. However they perceive you've got to have their attention. If you don't have their attention you have obscurity. People don't know about you and our issue is people don't know about us and when they do they want to use us and when they want to use us they want to use this. And when they use this scale we have a term problem because we don't have the systems and processes because I'm the bottleneck to back that up

Malcolm Lui: Right. And by

Justin Jones: I think a lot of small business owners can relate to them being the model that can still so it's a very common problems.

Malcolm Lui: Yeah for sure. And I see how it all ties in now about how you're keen on. You're keen on hiring a third party to set meetings for you because it frees up your time. Right. You need to make a 200 to 300 calls. Now how many appointments are these guys making for you every day.

Justin Jones: They we've been testing different types of messaging when they call because obviously the dog we're calling you know what we do is kind of complex. It's hard to sum up unless you understand you know you don't understand 40 plus tools understand their process so it's very very more I'm just like they're calling to not sell the product or the service they're calling to sell a meeting. So we've been testing different messaging through that. And the end goal will be that you know there to set us all five meetings per week. You could say one a day of course is not going to happen one a day. But the goal is five per week. And right now we're doing two or three just because we're fine tuning that messaging for conversion purposes on the call. And you know working on like you know what what type of Europe e-mail that we send after the call. You know do we run retargeting ads after the call to them. Those kind of things kind of all omni multi-channel approach. A fine tuning but the end goal if we can get one meeting set per day on average we would be doing really well

Malcolm Lui: Right. Okay. And have you worked. I'm sure you did already. You guys have heavy numbers focus is their cost per setting appointment attractive relative

Justin Jones: Yes

Malcolm Lui: To what you've been spending before

Justin Jones: Yes very it after anything would be better.

Malcolm Lui: Okay.

Justin Jones: Big Because well we've had some internal I've you know had our own many call center materials or people drowned them out calls it doesn't work. One of the downs there's an upside of where we are. If you're in the tourism business we're in one of the most popular. I mean our headquarters is look at when most popular tourist destinations in the United States. It's great for the culture from the execution side of what we do. It sucks for sales because it's a very small town. You know when you go to bigger towns you know if you're hiring a salesperson you can get you know easy as many great candidates as you need. If you're looking for you know 10 or 15 people but also it's not it's as I said a very small town great for tourism culture for like you know our writers are you know our bloggers and designers our social media people all of that kind of stuff is great by ourselves. So

Malcolm Lui: Right.

Justin Jones: We had to outsource that. So they're in a much bigger city and it's working out a lot better so we either had to open up a call center in another city or location a bigger city Atlanta or Miami or somewhere or outsource so we can outsource.

Malcolm Lui: Right. And they're making appointments with businesses throughout the nation.

Justin Jones: Yeah. Right now primarily on the. East Coast because we love the destinations and to the final destination viewing. I didn't say it would be like a tourism destination like the Myrtle Beach a Destin Florida a Hilton Head. Those kind of where their vacation rentals where there's vacation rentals and where there's hotels that are more destination driven. So an ideal client for us is an independent hotel in Myrtle Beach in Destin Florida not necessarily a separate or you know a corner Lodge on an exit off of an interstate. We're not very keen to helping those our target market is a destination like I said Denver Colorado. If you want to go further out west. Those are going to have destinations that people go to for vacation

Malcolm Lui: Right. And you're contacting the owners of these independent hotels directly. Those the right people

Justin Jones: Yeah yeah. And as I said about 90 percent of our business is that we have everything from attorneys we have some attorneys we work with their marketing we have some strong real estate some land sales people that are nationwide they sell land all over my state. We have some bask in that but not be present. It's pretty much in the tourism space dream destinations. City State's CBD. MOSES I don't mean much to most people but you know Convention Visitors Bureau is a destination marketing organization which is typically funded by the government. Those are ideal client independent hotels vacation rental companies attractions is the core that is so

Malcolm Lui: Okay. Now can you share with us how much you're paying per appointment

Justin Jones: I don't really know at this point because

Malcolm Lui: Uk

Justin Jones: It's been such a little short period of time. I can tell you a target

Malcolm Lui: Okay

Justin Jones: I don't necessarily know that we're there yet because it's common those things like you know you love the top of the funnel and until the base of the funnel gets a little bigger it's hard to really tell acquisition cost but if we could be somewhere per appointment around the 500 dollar range per appointment we would be OK with that

Malcolm Lui: Right. So you figure if you get a you know just to do a very rough estimate say you had 20 appointments that you paid five point five hundred dollars each. How many of those 20 FTD you're filtering after to your discovery call making sure that you have a problem that

Justin Jones: When

Malcolm Lui: You can't

Justin Jones: Came

Malcolm Lui: Solve

Justin Jones: Out

Malcolm Lui: And that you want this off. Yeah. How many do you think wind end up being a client for you

Justin Jones: Yeah. Once again I don't think we have enough data to say what it is but I can tell

Malcolm Lui: Okay

Justin Jones: You what I think we hope it is.

Malcolm Lui: Okay.

Justin Jones: Will we should be able to. If if we're calling the right people we're you know we're not misleading them into some hope and fantasy and that they're actually the people that we discover after that somewhere in the process of running the business. If we could close 25 to 30 percent of those we would be happy with that. So if we can get a meeting cost around 500 and then our conversion rate around 25 to 30 percent that become an actual clock. Would you go with that

Malcolm Lui: Right. So you're roughly speaking you'd be paying. You say you did. You did ten appointment and then you get a client out of it. Roughly speaking. So you paid five thousand dollars for to get to us to acquire three clients. So that's actually

Justin Jones: Yes.

Malcolm Lui: A pretty attractive price there considering that they're paying

Justin Jones: Yeah we're

Malcolm Lui: Thousands

Justin Jones: Being a

Malcolm Lui: With you every month. Right

Justin Jones: I don't know that we're going to get there but that is our goal and based our reverse engineering on numbers I think we can do that. But this is very unique to us. So it was all kind of hypothetical numbers but in the next couple months we'll be able to tell others.

Malcolm Lui: Right. Fantastic. Now you know you kind of done a little bit of this already but maybe you can recap it again. Who again would you say are your ideal clients and what's the best way for them to contact you

Their ideal clients

Justin Jones: So an ideal client would be anyone who is you know I've talked a lot about terrorism stuff of course and that's on the also an independent hotel owner that wants to get a business a vacation rental company. You know that's a hot topic recently with the Air B and B stuff and everybody an individual you're going to be on is not ideal for us but someone who manages you know a lot of vacation is our average client right manages one hundred and 250 vacation rules. What is your ideal a a CBB demo. That would be like you know a city who is trying to drive tourists to their area. That's really ideal. We do really really well those a state that's trying to drive people to the State for Tourism and tax dollars. But outside of all just anyone who really wants to actually grow their business and are doing pretty well already. But they want to just have that back like edge an outside perspective brought in and they want to save money save time and grow their business but actually grow their business. The three questions we ask is How big do you want to be. How fast you want to get there. And the third question is the hardest for most people. What are you willing to change to make that happen. So that's kind of our three questions that we start start out with us with some of them.

Justin Jones: How big you will be how fast you want to be here to be how fast you want to get there and what are you willing to change to make that happen. And then anybody who says you know knows how big they want to be knows how fast they want to get there and it can do probably a million dollars a year and they say I'd like to do fifty nine dollars a year. How soon. Six months. OK. Your willingness to change. Better be huge. But if you're doing commanders here want to get to 3 million and you're kind of stuck. We really get a lot of businesses or stuff they you know they did two million last year two point one this year to point to the next. So they're grow and things are uncomfortable but they go man. I've been growing for 5 percent every year for five years. How can I grow 20 percent. Those are ideal customers for. Somebody who wants to scale their growth but they're doing a pretty good job. We're also good at pulling companies out of the hole who have been declining 10 15 20 percent year over year for a while. We're where we're good with those. But an ideal customer B one is just 4 5 percent growth every year. And then like lama not going to do that. But I don't know how that would be an ideal

Malcolm Lui: Ok. And what's the best way for those companies to reach you.

Justin Jones: They can go to our website at online dot com. I am e.g. online dot com I'm censoring net like expert or just google internet marketing expert. I think we're number one and number two on Google. If you can't remember that but just the OMG online dot com is where you can reach us

Malcolm Lui: All right fantastic. Now now just one last final question you share with me who your ideal clients are. It sounds like you have quite a number of different customer appetites to

Justin Jones: Yes

Malcolm Lui: Focus on here. So are there any among them that would be your most attractive. The ones that you're really keen on focusing on first.

Justin Jones: Yes I'm going to take just a second to answer are the people that we do the best with are in the cities and destinations like a city who's trying to drive tourism to drive tax dollars. We are really really good at that. The problem with saying that is that when we ask them they have a different motive for growth that we don't sometimes align with. They're looking for more you know how can you make me look good. How can we look busy as opposed to real numbers so they don't want to change. So when we ask how big we want to be then that answer. But when we get to the you know how fast do you want to get there they can answer that when we ask. What are you willing to change. They're not willing to change much to get there. So those are difficult but there are some little good ones out there. Those are the people who are willing to change in that industry. Second to that it would really just be anyone who is out there who has a good stable business been growing 45 percent and just being like Man I don't know. I don't know how to take this thing to the next level. We've got some problems here.

Justin Jones: I know what they are. I know where I am I know where I want to be but I need some help building that roadmap to get there. That would be the ideal person who kind of knows where they are and where they want to be but they're not really sure how to get there. We can absolutely help that that we're really good at the building of those roadmaps to get to where you are to where you want to be. And size wise typically you know a company doing under probably 50 million. You've got a couple of customers and you've really helped and are doing. You know our largest customer of course they'll spend this much with us by any means but their revenue is in the 70 million next year. Goal is 100 million. So when they come on one of our six and we're doing 30 we want to figure out how it is 50. We help them learn the roadmap to get from 30 to 50. And in fact this past year they did 70 so they were ahead of pace on just someone who can answer those questions you can answer those questions that you still love to talk to you. Well that's the ideal customer for this

Malcolm Lui: Fantastic. Thanks so much for joining us today. Justin in Shanghai you accelerated your company's high value sales

Justin Jones: Thank you.

Malcolm Lui: We've been speaking to Justin Jones, the CEO and Founder of Internet Marketing Expert Group, about his company's rapid growth. For interviews with other fast growing high value sales companies or to and how we can accelerate your firm's high value sales through automation visit

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