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Malcolm Lui:
Welcome to the High Value Sales Show of Eversprint.com. I'm Malcolm Lui, the Managing Member of Eversprint, and today we're speaking with Shay Berman, the President of Digital Resource a full service digital marketing agency based in West Palm Beach, Florida. Welcome to the call today Shay.

Shay Berman:
Thank you for having me on.

Malcolm Lui:
Shay, you grew your company's revenue from $102,000 in 2014 to $2 million dollars in 2017, a 1,855% increase and now you're on track to hit $4.5 million in 2018. But before I ask you how you grew your company so fast, can you briefly share what your company does beyond the quick intro and how your company differs from the competition?

Shay Berman:
Yeah for sure. Our company. We're a digital marketing agency. We're a marquee agency that specializes in using digital marketing to bring our clients new business. Typically our clients have goals revolving around new revenue growth. You'll bring in specific types of business to certain services they offer or bring a certain number and some gifts like patients for example or some number of clients to the door. We assist our clients in growing their businesses utilizing these online channels. So a lot of companies try and figure out what they can do online and then figure out what that's going to bring them in terms of business success. We go the opposite way. We define their business goals and utilize online marketing to achieve those goals based on what we know about the marketing landscape. The demographics of their area and what's going to take to bring them new business using different verticals online. One way that our clients say we're a lot different where our competition is because of how we separate campaigns because we are more of a consultative approach where we learn more about the business before we bring in the marketing. Another reason our clients say that we're different is because of our tracking abilities matches our abilities. But our obsessiveness with wanting to track our results. We look at the clients at a partnership level. We're not a vendor but a partner to them and we work with them to figure out what is and is not working in our marketing and because we create that partnership because we care and we are on the same level as a client or invested in their success. It creates a great dynamic from the clients. The agency allows our clients to be transparent upfront with us as well as us to be transparent upfront with our clients creating great communication and overall great marketing and success for whatever their goals may be.

Malcolm Lui:
Fantastic. Now the key points of differentiation you shared with me are they also the the biggest drivers of your sales growth over the past few years. Or is there something else that drove your sales growth.

Shay Berman:
You know a lot of things. So sales growth I can't say OK contributes just wanders to you are just these key differentiators. And I think it really starts with the fact that we are passionate about what we do but not in the word loosely worded word terms that people use passion all the time. We really want to be the top largest fastest growing companies in the country that provide the best results because of it. I don't sleep. I when I do what I do sleep I'm thinking about my company. I'm always living and breathing digital resource and so is our team our team is obsessed with being the best at no matter what their goal is in the company and that translates to everything. The partnerships we build into referrals we get our clients to clients are our people bring in from their friends of family. We're also obsessive being the best to be the biggest and being the fastest that everyone plays a role in touching everywhere. It opens up a lot of doors for opportunities like interviews like seminars speaking events like a lot of engagements that we would typically get have not that's obsessed with the business that allows us to get in front of more and more people than the average marketing agency.

Malcolm Lui:
So obsessed obsession with being the best being the fastest. Were there other drivers that you attribute maybe the number two driver of your sales growth.

Shay Berman:
I think back to kind of our unique selling points. I think that our obsession with also tracking what we do has led to long term results for our clients where our clients don't leave us with a very low attrition rate compared to the industry average. What comes digital marketing and we do lots of contracts. So we were actually able to bring on more clients that both agencies would because we're able to have that trust factor where hey we're losing if we don't keep that long term and we're willing to commit to that to you by bringing you on a month to month basis knowing that we're not going to be profitable. So at least three or six months down the line. So we bring in more through the doors because of that we keep them longer because we prove our results. And again our team has really great advantage in our clients throughout the sales process throughout the post sell which is essentially the marketing campaign.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. So your team is fantastic both before during and after the sale. And that comes with your obsession with tracking as well. Is there a third factor that you'd like to add to the list as being a big sales growth driver.

Shay Berman:
I meant the first look has being our passion obsession but I think a big piece of it really comes down to hard work. A lot of people say you work smarter not harder but you can work smarter and you can work harder. And because I'm sleeping or I should say I'm working 20 hours a day at least six days a week literally sitting for hours a day I am able to open up the door to some app to my company and triple that down to my team. So did session with the work you know our teams follow through from beginning to end but also just working harder. So many people want to just let it come to them and let the doors open. But we push those doors open and we push through to that extra that's behind them.

Malcolm Lui:
Fantastic. Now you grew yourselves from one hundred two thousand in 2014 and you're ending this year at about 4.5 million. Now clearly that in all come from just doing more business with your clients that you must have added a tremendous number of new clients or perhaps you didn't share how many new clients you've added over the past few years.

Shay Berman:
Yeah. You know I started the company only four years ago when our first sales numbers from that were from two thousand fifteen hundred two thousand dollars was my first year business just by myself. At that time we had I want to say maybe 15 clients and today we have close to for a little over 400. So over the last year and a half years or so we've gained about 400 clients sell

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. Now I now I have from my research that you have twenty one employees is that right.

Shay Berman:
We actually now have as of today we have thirty nine

Malcolm Lui:
Thirty nine employees. Okay now Are you at capacity. Can you handle. Can your thirty nine employees handle more than 400 are you pretty much tapped out and I need to hire more people

Shay Berman:
So we are always hiring. We actually hire one point eight nine people per month currently and we are always staff to be able to handle our influx of new clients that come every single month as well as the clients that leave. We have. We know how many. That difference is. And we are always staffed up and ready for that. Our physical office is capped out at about forty one. So we are almost at capacity from physical size in the middle of February our new office opens up a whole 101 people. So we're just kind of trying to hold over till then we'll send some people home in the meantime if needed to work remote. But we are always staffed up and ready for the influx new clients that comes every single week

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. So I did some simple math here. So you're looking to end the year at about 4 million. You have 400 clients today. So that works out to be annual revenue about ten thousand dollars per client. Is that about right on average.

Shay Berman:
Yeah. That is about right.

Malcolm Lui:
What are they getting for your 10k per year service

Shay Berman:
So

Malcolm Lui:
On average

Shay Berman:
You have to remember we have clients are doing all the way down to web site maintenance only with us. You just maintain their Web site a couple hundred bucks a month already. Clients who are investing you know 30 40 50 thousand dollars per month. So while that is our average you know those averages are can fluctuate greatly.

Malcolm Lui:
Uk

Shay Berman:
Our average client has thus a Web site Web site maintenance Search Engine Optimization social media management that typically has a little bit of Facebook advertising and our hottest offering which is managed live chat services

Malcolm Lui:
All right to manage life cat services and how much do they typically pay you for those typical services.

Shay Berman:
All ranges depending on the industry they're in and the competitiveness you know live chat is 375 for month on average for a local business they can go up there. Social media is a few hours a month and can go up from there. Search Engine Optimization you know we're talking close to a thousand a month and go up from there. But that's kind of our our general client has about those things.

Malcolm Lui:
Ok. So is your median value much different from the ten thousand dollar per year average I calculated.

Shay Berman:
Well the 10000 you put your average is correct. That's an absolute average. But you

Malcolm Lui:
Right.

Shay Berman:
Have to remember that we have so many clients that are below and above it that it's hard to really give you an exact middle ground

Malcolm Lui:
Sure. OK. Now from 15 clients to 400 I mean you literally add at one hundred a year practically. How did you guys find new clients at each and every year

Shay Berman:
There's really two sides of it. One side is we have all referral based from our partners that work with the business owners who are for us business because they know we'll do a great job for their own clients to our clients who would do a great job for that bring on other businesses and their friends and family. And then our other side is our search engine optimization. We're very highly ranked in the United States and large major cities around the country to where people are finding us online and requesting free analysis or requesting for us to analyze our business and our marketing online so that we can determine whether or not that would be good for it for us. And that would allow us to be a good fit for that.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Yeah I did a little bit of research into what you're doing from FCO and paper exec perspective. And yeah I saw some pretty heavy SEO work that you've been doing but nothing on the paper side is that right.

Shay Berman:
That's correct

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah. What's the thinking behind that.

Shay Berman:
No paper click can drive some calls. There are typically people that don't have money from when I find.

Malcolm Lui:
Interesting. Okay

Shay Berman:
Yeah it's the organic side and since we talk clients organic sizes they have less tyre kickers more serious buyers people with more money. That's what we see in organic. And I'm an ACL specialist at heart. That's what got my company started was my passion for ISIL. Do glad I can do it. When it comes to internet marketing by just don't see it performing. Nearly as well. Especially for the money you have to put an upfront number one and number to your Facebook advertising is becoming huge and there's a lot of opportunity there that we're actually working at night.

Malcolm Lui:
For yourself.

Shay Berman:
Yeah as well as your clients but yes for ourselves.

Malcolm Lui:
Now was kind of an impression that defined clients on Facebook wasn't really optimal from a legal perspective because you know Do businesses really hang out on Facebook looking for solutions to the problems unlike say Google right. When someone has a problem they're going to type something into the search bar and then you can show them the relevant ad. What's your take on using Facebook to generate business needs for yourself

Shay Berman:
We have some of the most highly skilled Facebook advertising specialists our company and they have a great way at figuring out who the most broad and general business owner is and be able to show them and display them content that might be interesting to them. That triggers different pieces of the Facebook advertising funnel as a person goes down the funnel you're able to put them into certain groups and give them a buying persona. They can then advertise to. So through sharing certain pieces of content and seeing who does and does not engage that content you can go from a Jew very general business owner whose business owners are online just maybe not interested at the exact moment you hit them and get them interested and get them into a buying buyer persona group that you can advertise to and hit down the road. It's just a longer play and not necessarily direct call to action but content feeding with a call to action at the end

Malcolm Lui:
Right now when you show them ads. Will you be keeping them on the Facebook platform and you be showing the ads from within Facebook or you can be doing the remarketing thing and hitting them on all fronts

Shay Berman:
Typically you want to do it just in Facebook. When you are doing the ad side we do re marketing and as far as ad role with display advertising online. But when we do on Facebook we keep it at Facebook. The return on investments the conversion rates are much higher within the Facebook platform. Even 10 times higher than Instagram. Obviously with their partner networks it's much higher than those small

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Okay so in terms of your plans for 2019 what can you share them. I know you're talking about doing it a little bit more Facebook advertising to generate leads for your own business in the upcoming year. Any other plans I can share with us

Shay Berman:
Yeah we're increasing our sales force. We have some major partnerships are opening up our doors to open up their doors to us. Excuse me. And with that we need the staff to be able to handle the you'll maintain those partnerships and keeping those doors open. So on top of our own Facebook lead gen we'll all be furthering our partnerships. They've gotten us here over last four years and where you should be at a higher growth rate than ever for 2013.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. Can you share a little bit about your partnerships

Shay Berman:
Yeah I mean we are very specific in the certain industries and with these industries we have people who have just entrusted us with their clients and basically they're just spreading us to more and more of their friends around the country. So it's not too much more particular than the fact that they trust us and there I'll make it their friends trust us to

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. Can you give an example of such a partnership either a real one or a hypothetical one. Either way

Shay Berman:
Yeah. So let's say that there is a medical supplier and there's a medical doctor and he gets a supplies from a certain medical supplier. Those suppliers have reps for example that go out around the country and they talk to those doctors offices every day. Well sometimes conversations come up about marketing and how to get more patients so that medical doctor will sometimes listen to that rep and bring in a company like us. So we really want to build those partnerships with those reps

Malcolm Lui:
Okay got it. And and how will increasing sales on your side help with these sort of partnerships.

Shay Berman:
So increasing sales outside won't help the partnerships. But basically when we do get the opportunities with these partner clients and we do a great job it helps them because no one increases the size of their client themselves because they can sell more to them because they're doing more business. And number two it makes them look good because they're the ones who referred us. There's more trust and then you know that kind of relationship with them and their clients. It's a lot about relationships so they want to build on that relationship and bring us into the mix and solidify that

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. So your goal of hiring more salespeople is really to really does solidify the relationship and help that relationship grow quickly and fast so that everyone is a winner from that

Shay Berman:
Year to be able to service those accounts that they're bringing to the table.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now you're on your team right now. You said you have a thirty nine employees and you're grown by a one point eight nine each month which is kind of funny. And are they all local to Florida your team.

Shay Berman:
They are everyone is in-house

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah. What's your thoughts about that having everyone in-house vs. having them scattered throughout the nation if not the world.

Shay Berman:
I don't believe a remote I think remote can cause a lot of waste. No one but the most important reason is it can diminish culture. I think that if you have everyone together in the same room especially in a creative environment like we have like our industry is that it creates for a much better form of communication within the company and then back to the client as well. So I'm not a big believer in remote work. Not at least on the creative aspect of marketing.

Malcolm Lui:
Now you quoted me a few price ranges for your services. I mean I don't know exactly what goes in each of the elements that you shared with me but they didn't sound out relentlessly expensive relative to other offers out there. Am I correct. Are you saying that you would you put your pricing at middle tier or low tier high tier

Shay Berman:
I set up pricing somewhat low tier it depends on the business that we're working with. Not that our prices change the amount of work that goes into what they need changes. So it's kind of giving you like a local business type pricing. Obviously when we get to mid medium size or large businesses it goes up from there which is why our clients can scale so widely. But another thing that makes our company unique is our ability to work with the mom and pop shop all the way up to the 50 7 franchise business. We're working with every single location or in the obviously the entire corporate brand. So we work with everyone and we have teams for everyone within our company.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Okay. But you know what I'm trying to figure out now is that you know the the the common thinking is that having local U.S. based staffing costs is significantly higher than if you were to have a remote team that are in other parts of the world. Right. But at the same time your pricing doesn't seem exorbitantly high. So how do you make that work. Is it just a volume game for you. Is that the way you're looking to build your business make it up on the

Shay Berman:
I've

Malcolm Lui:
Volume

Shay Berman:
Been

Malcolm Lui:
Side.

Shay Berman:
I've been told that the way we create our processes have created created such drastic and amazing efficiencies that we're able to keep our pricing so low. I say we've been told because when we talk to a counselor we talked to people who are evaluating our bucks. They're also surprised by the efficiencies that we have in place. So we're just a very very efficiently run company.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. Can you give examples of how that evolved you know example of efficiency inefficiency that you identified and how you squashed it out of existence

Shay Berman:
Well my favorite word in the world is it's economical. I believe that everything should be economical from what you do in your personal daily life to what you do in business to how you drive to how you eat how you dress how you walk to how you talk to how everything should be economic goal for the situation. So because I've been obsessed with that word I've brought that to the company in many different forms from the tools that we use to how we evaluate our time to what how we value our time and what kind of effort we put into it. So we are always evaluating our efficiencies from beginning to end. A specific one I can give you. Within our company for example running Google advertising there there's a lot of tools out there that you can purchase that can make it so one person can run more Google ads I can spot airs for you but it's not just like using the tool but how you use the tool. Not allowing the tool to do all the work for you and make those manual changes but later it will be a backdrop to the knowledge that you already have. So there's various levels that you can use certain tools but knowing where to land level your efficiency into it your economical ness if you will is very important so you don't let know automation take over to a point where it shouldn't be and you don't do too much work to the point where you are inefficient

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Exactly. So for 2019 Can you share your revenue targets for the year and maybe your client targets

Shay Berman:
Client targets I'm not sure it's changed every year and it's not really something we go by

Malcolm Lui:
Okay

Shay Berman:
Back and say you are too smart as you go by which is revenue and people growth because I'm very proud of the growth of our company and the economic impact that we have locally here in West Palm Beach. We're hoping to go from thirty nine people to about 60 55 60 and we hope to go from four point to five million. We should do about seven million next year.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. And do you have a feeling on how much that's going to be coming from providing additional services to your clients that you're growing along with them versus actually finding new business

Shay Berman:
I would say 80 percent or so should come from new business

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. And will all that come from from your Facebook advertising campaigns that you're looking to do or some other channels that you're looking to get the new business and virtual was of course.

Shay Berman:
I can definitely say it's gonna be 50 50 on a referral sources and our FCO as far as on the Facebook advertising campaign does that well. It's yet to be seen. So I don't have an estimate but we have high hopes

Malcolm Lui:
Now you are using any or have you tried other channels to do generate new business. I know you said from your paper click experience not so fantastic how about email marketing direct to your ideal customers. Have you tried that. And if yes how did that work for you

Shay Berman:
We've never done anything else besides FCO and our partnerships.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. Do you see a need to do something else

Shay Berman:
We've done one other thing. We have a great brand online from our Web site to our social media to we do email marketing but it's all warm to our existing clients or leads that we've talked to in the past.

Malcolm Lui:
Ok

Shay Berman:
We have a great brand that when you look at Mark agencies online most agencies don't do for themselves what they tell other people to do for them.

Malcolm Lui:
Yep

Shay Berman:
And

Malcolm Lui:
Yep.

Shay Berman:
We definitely do. Our culture is lively there and all of our clients our partners our friends our family. Everyone who's ever touched or seen as a resource sees did a resource on Facebook or Instagram or anywhere else that we're posting in one way or another. At least a few times a week it keeps us top of mind. It keeps those referrals flowing. It keeps the trust there and it keeps everyone knowing who we are and people get passion about our own business to where I've been surprised to see the passion coming from people outside our own company. And people are knocking on our door every day. It's working for us.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Now how do you manage your FCO so so it attracts your ideal client and not people who would never do business with you.

Shay Berman:
So I really don't mind who it attracts because whether it's a student which we get students on in there all the time doing research because we talk to them through our chat. We're a business owner looking now or a business owner looking never We just want to grow our physical presence thinking bar FCO our content being created as a news site and if that turns into something more through a call to action that they see wonderful and if not we love to support the traffic and provide them with the information we're creating. So we're just creating information that we believe is relevant to the world. Putting sometimes an ASIO spin on it may maybe some localized keywords but really just about increasing the physical size for a website for content that's being searched

Malcolm Lui:
Right now doesn't that kind of go a little bit counter to your economical philosophy. You know investing into FCO and attracting traffic that may not necessarily result in more business for yourself.

Shay Berman:
You would think so but it's about how I invest in that traffic. I don't actually have an SRO team for ourselves when our team is overstaffed and there is not enough work to be had. Our team all turns into SC hours and content creators. Therefore I'm using the efficiency or the inefficiency of being overstaffed for future outcomes of bringing new clients to utilise that for SEO which is then creating inefficiency and allowing us to do as the overall web site. So we use our over staffing problem as an opportunity to increase our

Malcolm Lui:
Right. The endless job right to infinite task where anyone has some excess capacity to themselves they can work on your ACL and content development right.

Shay Berman:
Exactly

Malcolm Lui:
Yep. And you don't have the onus on them to create the content for any particular customer Avatar you seeking to attract. I think Europe at pretty liberal on the kind of content you allow them that create

Shay Berman:
Yeah. Sometimes we could create some generalised plans but it's it's a fairly liberal process

Malcolm Lui:
Right. OK. Now to what degree. When you do FCO work release on the content side that you create the content to attract a particular customer Avatar either not either for yourself or for the clients.

Shay Berman:
Chaos again.

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah. So to what degree do you do FCO work in content creation to attract a specific customer avatar. Because I know you share with me now you're OK know attracting traffic you are not your ideal customers right. Does that extend to your clients as well.

Shay Berman:
No our clients are always going to be well let me back up because it's not like I'm not. It's not like I'm okay with bringing in traffic. That's not ideal to my customer Avatar but because we're in the business of marketing and marketing as a subject that's often studied we always bring in people who are not necessarily looking for it to work with us because of that because marketing is studying or providing information. So same can be for our clients. If someone studying whatever industry they're in a little looking for information as well but it doesn't mean they're not necessarily going to be purchasers. I would say you have that segment but it doesn't mean that they're not purchasers possibly in the future because they're still landing on that website.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Exactly. So what challenges do you see that you're facing in 2019 that you need to still figure out in order to achieve your objectives.

Shay Berman:
The biggest challenge for 2019 really it's just the physical limitations of our office space right now and getting through it.

Malcolm Lui:
Ok. So you're going to be actively looking for a new space.

Shay Berman:
Yeah well we have a space that's being built to be done mid-February. So right now it's just holding over until then. Otherwise we don't have a whole lot of limitations that we're looking at.

Malcolm Lui:
So you know you're comfortable that you're gonna be hitting your your sales targets that you'll be able to hire that people need to hire and then do the number of new clients coming on board. You're not too focused on that you said

Shay Berman:
Yeah. Well we're desolate we think that we can have our best sales year ever so we're not really concerned with anything else behind that.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. And now a number of people I've interviewed talked about how it's really challenging for them to find qualified people in our current full employment macro situation are you finding out to be the case as well

Shay Berman:
So I'm not. We are always actively recruiting internally and we have some external recruiters who work with and we also have a great internship program that we've had in the past. You obviously run out of fiscal space. Now we're going to be doing a very intense internship program our new space that will have about 10 interns at any given time to probe to proposition for the most part because we have about five teams our office. So we have two interns for every team that will always be rotating. So the interns that the internal recruiting and extra recruiters we have we always pretty much have someone available to bring under the team.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. So are these people locally or are people willing to pack up their bags and move or move to Florida.

Shay Berman:
They're all local

Malcolm Lui:
All right. The plastic your sounds like you guys are the exception to the rule or is this Florida really robust environment finding people who can do digital marketing

Shay Berman:
You know. I mean the floor is more robust economy than most people think. Part of reason why I'm here is that I believe it's the land of opportunity. Most businesses are small business owners. It's not too corporate. It's not too big business here and the people that are here are creative people. And there's a lot of people are looking for opportunities but there's not there's a sport where you're looking at large agencies in the state of Florida. There's only a handful that most if you want to consider them large. And when you look at agencies that are full of opportunity we definitely stand out as one of the top because of our culture because of our speed of growth and because of where we want to head to and you know what I do believe to be my leadership and the leadership of the team that's below me. So we are a very attractive place for anyone in the marketing space within 100 miles of here

Malcolm Lui:
Right now. You mentioned earlier that you have 400 clients. You know how many buckets are there if you were to group them together of this 400.

Shay Berman:
What do you mean.

Malcolm Lui:
Well they're all not. Clearly they're not all the same right. They're all different in some ways. So how would you segment your 400 clients

Shay Berman:
I would say 40 percent medical practices and 60 percent. Literally everyone else

Malcolm Lui:
Ok and how about size of company how would you slice and dice them up on that factor.

Shay Berman:
That ranges to because so many companies you do or don't need human capital to run. I talked about size stars over people revenue

Malcolm Lui:
Whatever metric is relevant to your client base

Shay Berman:
Let's say people the average size or a client maybe 10 to 15 people in the company.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. The smaller than I had anticipated. So she since you said you had some that are paying you tens of thousands a month for for your work

Shay Berman:
Well yes yes for the average though

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah. True. True. Okay good. And how about the revenue range of your four clients. How why does it

Shay Berman:
I

Malcolm Lui:
Go

Shay Berman:
Honestly wouldn't know that. Exactly I would say maybe 1 to 2 million a year.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay now surely the ones who are spending six digits of the every year are well beyond the 2 million range.

Shay Berman:
Of course

Malcolm Lui:
Okay all right. And that kind of brings me to my last two questions for you. You know who are your ideal clients and what's the best way for them to reach you

Shay Berman:
Our ideal clients are anyone who believes that the Internet might be a place to obtain your business. And of course anyone who wants to grow their business you can reach us on our Web site your digital resource dot com and also e-mails that sales at your digital resource dot com. So if you're looking to grow your business and you believe that online might be the right place and you have goals that you want to achieve that's definitely ideal client for us.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. Fantastic. Thanks so much for joining me today and sharing how you grew your company so fast.

Shay Berman:
Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate time today.

Malcolm Lui:
We've been speaking with Shay Berman, the President of Digital Resource about his company's rapid growth. For interviews with other fast growing high value sales companies, or to learn how we can accelerate your firm's high value sales through automation, visit Eversprint.com.

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