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Malcolm Lui:
Welcome to the High Value Sales Show of Eversprint.com. I'm Malcolm Lui, the Managing Member of Eversprint, and today we're speaking with Michael DesRochers, the Managing Partner of PoliteMail Software, a provider of tools for corporate communications departments and B2B marketing. Welcome to the show Michael.

Michael DesRocher:
Thank you. Glad to be here.

Malcolm Lui:
Michael, you grew your company's revenue from $610,000 in 2014 to $3.6 million in 2017, a 490% increase, and in 2018 you hit around $5.9 million. Before we talk about how you grew your company so fast, can you briefly share what your company does beyond my quick intro, and how your company differs from the competition?

Michael DesRocher:
Sure. Yeah. So polite MILES PROVIDING Outlook e-mail intelligence not overload. So most of our customers are large organizations with lots of employees and we're extending the functionality of outlook to add three tools some list accuracy and targeting tools some responsive design tools and some email analytics tools to their employee communications so essentially they can measure and improve how they communicate with their employees.

Malcolm Lui:
And how would you differ from your competition you might try to offer the same sort of things

Michael DesRocher:
So our position is you know the why leave outlook just to measure your communication. So oftentimes customers are trying to use like an email marketing tool to do this because you can get some open and click tracking through those tools. But then customers have to do list management process and then often that email marketing is getting you know filed into spam folders or blocked altogether or the metrics just aren't as accurate. So by embedding ourselves into outlook we're already part of their existing mail process and we don't suffer from the spam filtering or the blocking or and we can you know just use the existing exchange distribution groups without them having to go into the list management business

Malcolm Lui:
Right now. What's the thinking behind using Outlook exclusively as opposed to adding other email platforms like say that Google key suite

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. People ask that. I mean if we might do G suite eventually I mean most of our customers are you know they're kind of the Fortune 1000 Fortune 2000 level and the charity of those 80 percent or so already use Microsoft Office and Office 365. So we just haven't had the demand for other mail platforms. Our opinion is Microsoft's already one the enterprise and we're just going to add functionality to it

Malcolm Lui:
Now is there a minimum number of employees where before that you

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah.

Malcolm Lui:
Need

Michael DesRocher:
So.

Malcolm Lui:
To be at

Michael DesRocher:
So the way we deploy our services so unlike majority of SAS systems that are like a shared multi tenant environment for you know security and performance we're doing ours on a dedicated cloud service basis. We also have you know the on prem option which just under 30 percent of our customers will utilize. So we don't have to process any other data they can do it themselves. But generally you have to be cost effective it's got to be like 20 500 employees and over one of our projects for this year is to do you know to extract out some functionality and and do it more traditional SaaS to address that smaller market because we get lots of inquiries and the thousand employee in up you know a thousand two thousand employee type customers we just don't have a good cost effective solution for them at this stage.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now use your fee structure as a fixed fee or does it vary with no users

Michael DesRocher:
It

Malcolm Lui:
Number

Michael DesRocher:
Is

Malcolm Lui:
Of employee

Michael DesRocher:
It very it's approximately one to two dollars per employee per year is how it works out. So it's it's really just you know how many people are we keeping track of in terms of the measurement data really defines the cost structure.

Malcolm Lui:
Maybe one to two dollars per year it doesn't sound like a huge amount for something that can provide a lot more productivity and an impact right. I mean sending an email that gets the stand is a wasted email.

Michael DesRocher:
Right. Exactly.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. Sounds like your solutions really are really affordable. I mean even if a company has twenty five hundred employees you're talking roughly five thousand a year. It's not a huge not not not not an insurmountable amount to allocate

Michael DesRocher:
Right yeah. On that smaller scale to a little bit higher because we have that again we're doing the dedicated servers. But you know once it gets to 5000 then that scale applies and

Malcolm Lui:
I imagine must be a relatively easy sell then for people who are doing regular employee communications and and are really keen on making sure they're engaging in and improving those communications over time

Michael DesRocher:
Right. Yeah. Generally we ask you know I think the the pain point is you know our employees even reading the email they send right. We can we can answer that question because we don't just track opens and clicks are actually measuring re time and kind of can show some metrics that show like how much content you're sending out versus how much content people are actually reading. Yeah. So for anyone doing communications it's a you know there's some value in having the data to back up which is you know usually just intuition based or opinion based

Malcolm Lui:
On average. What sort of improvement has your customer seen after using say a year of polite mail

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah it's a great question. I was just looking at our. So every year we do benchmark surveys so we for customers that participate we take some anonymized aggregated data by industry and kind of look at what you know because when people start using tools like what is a good corporate open rate what is a good read rate or click rate. So we have that benchmark data to kind of establish establish that and I was looking at the 20 19 early version this morning and it's looking like for customers that have used it for two years they can get close to a 30 percent increase in readership and if they go to three or four years it's up closer to 50 percent improvement in readership. So that's like those are meaningful meaningful increases

Malcolm Lui:
Right. So that's an improvement of leadership not 50 percent of the people are reading it

Michael DesRocher:
Correct. Yes. So in other words wherever they started for a readership metric after a year that's improved by 30 after two or three years it's up by you know closer to 50 percent. So

Malcolm Lui:
Ok. Do you have any statistics as you know for the corporate communications. You know an absolute scale what percentage of them are read

Michael DesRocher:
I think it's like thirty six percent on average that that's you know that's basically where people start generally

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah get down to do your chores do anything in regards to reading retention and comprehension

Michael DesRocher:
We

Malcolm Lui:
Measurement.

Michael DesRocher:
We do. Yeah. So we do track the Fleiss reading scale and we you know in that benchmark we basically can show that they're easier to read. You make your communications the the higher readership you're going to have. So that's really you know and we have some industries you know tech industries in particular. We did notice like financials and other one where you know there's a lot of acronyms and specific wording that the fly scale ends up putting on the the opposite. So instead of being 10 easiest to read it's one most difficult to read. But in those industries it's kind of like that the the long tail. So the easiest read or the most complicated as scored by Fleiss turns out to be the high highest readership. So that's pretty sure that's just industry terminology specific.

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah they're not as their software provide some tools to maybe quiz people on their comprehension and retention because there's one thing if you look at it and read it but do they remember it an hour later

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah exactly. We have some simple survey and feedback tools so you can you know I don't know how many customers actually do it. We don't automate it in terms of doing follow up questions but we certainly provide the capabilities of someone wanted to ask like a multi choice question or yes no type question. You can do that I have seen some customers like you know for. Certain programs they a change management program they might do an email where it's like you know which of these sentences best describes you know our direction or they'll have three different versions and then that'll tell you you know give you some indication based on how people answer. Is the comprehension there are they are they understanding what what you want them to.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now interviewing drivers for your company. Write your company's growth was pretty strong. Six hundred ten thousand in 2014 all the way to five point nine million in 2018. So over the past four years it's grown rapidly. What were the three drivers behind that

Michael DesRocher:
I think part of it was just focus and specialization and you know one of the things we did having a good relationship with some early customers they gave us feedback in terms of wish list features and we we focused on on delivering those and then we really just addressed kind of within our marketing and sales approach we tried to address what we learned like the kind of the three major pain points right. So list accuracy and being able to target certain groups of employees without having to make tea requests and wait for those to be returned. Was one responsive design tools inside about look was another one you know as more and more employees access their email on their mobile device having an email message that looks good and responds Well it doesn't just shrink down so tiny that you can't read it is important. And then the analytics is you know has been historically the primary driver which is just understanding you know what employees are actually doing with your email and being able to provide really accurate metrics in that regard. So there's lots of tools like this that is a lot of the email marketing tools can provide you some metrics but like using e-mail marketing tool a good open rate might be you know 40 percent just because most of that's a lot of that measurement content is getting block and when you try to tell a CEO that their message was only opened by 40 percent of the population that doesn't tend to go over very well and then you try to explain why the data is suppressed and all that stuff. So with our tool you know on average we're seeing like a seventy eight seventy nine percent open rate for those corporate communications. So much much more accurate measure of reach.

Malcolm Lui:
Yes. And because then internally you might be able to bypass to some degree their antivirus anti malware type protection. Right. Because

Michael DesRocher:
It's really those edge those it's not that anti malware stuff so much but it's really that email edge protection right. So spoofing protection than just trying to filter out yeah it's part of that whole spam filtering

Malcolm Lui:
Yep

Michael DesRocher:
Process and a lot of marketing email and even at the marketing provider level you get blocked by corporate communications because they just don't want that

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah.

Michael DesRocher:
Stuff

Malcolm Lui:
Well I.

Michael DesRocher:
Get.

Malcolm Lui:
I do a bit of a know marketing as well. That's how you and I initially connected and what I found is that open rates are are a useless indicator from a hotel. Now because the corporates have these systems in place and they're traversing all the links all the pixels and it's showing is open right. And I mean I do these campaigns like I'll call the so-and-so open in I'm going to call them and chat with and see what they think about it. I call them they go. No I didn't open it. You don't know who you are what are you talking about. Right. So I came here. Asian. Like you mentioned all these predictions in these email and the edge filters they're triggering these things. Gets a point where I don't even look at open rates anymore. Is there

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah exactly yeah. And like a lot of our customers use proof point and proof point has some of those some of that kind of link inspection type tools and so it will generate a whole bunch of superfluous data. If you run it through you know if you come in through that direction

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah yeah definitely. So first driver focus and specialization. What's the second driver

Michael DesRocher:
Well I think that goes. I mean essentially the our marketing and sales approach. So you know by having that focus we know who are customers and who are desired customers are. So we you know we've just done some consistent long term marketing programs into those targets and then you know our our sales conversations when we actually get there just focus on you know solutions to their pain points and also the fact that we're not asking them to wholesale change their entire email communication process. Right. We're just leveraging their existing process than just adding some tools and functionality to it as opposed to giving them yet another new tool to adopt

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah that makes it easier. No one likes changes to their process unless they

Michael DesRocher:
Yes minimal

Malcolm Lui:
Have

Michael DesRocher:
Minimal

Malcolm Lui:
To

Michael DesRocher:
Change is possible. All right.

Malcolm Lui:
Continue using doing what you're doing and when you're ready just click the button and improve your communications. Okay. Is there a third driver.

Michael DesRocher:
I mean I think that Other than the you know potentially I guess the demand is always a helpful. So you know we've got some good competition in the market and I think having multiple companies basically trying to address the same issue. You know we all kind of come at it from different directions but it just raises the profile of of the problem and why you need you know and and turtle specialized tool versus you know an e-mail marketing tool. I think just just helps everybody.

Malcolm Lui:
Now you mentioned you target the Fortune 1000 companies for the most part. How do you go about finding the ideal customers within the Fortune 1000.

Michael DesRocher:
Well we kind of know what their titles are. And you know we have again some of those long term marketing programs we've done are with some companies that specialize in edgy you know corporate communications education. So we've been partners with them sponsoring conferences and events and stuff for you know for more than five years now. So it's really we just kind of go where they are and we try to do you know basically are our marketing approaches the content marketing education style orders. We're trying to provide as much information as we can and to make our tools as easy is to use as as possible and you know provide good value and really the best we can do.

Malcolm Lui:
Ok so your sales team are they just so inundated with inbound leads from your content marketing educate

Michael DesRocher:
I

Malcolm Lui:
Or

Michael DesRocher:
Would

Malcolm Lui:
Are they proactively

Michael DesRocher:
Like.

Malcolm Lui:
Smiling and dialing

Michael DesRocher:
Well so far I wouldn't call it inundated but so far most of our our business has come from just incoming leads or sales team to date has been inside sales where this year we started with a you know or more what you might call biz dev process where we're targeting certain organizations and trying to create conversations there. But up till now we haven't we haven't done that. But early indications are that that's that's working so we'll we'll continue expanding in that direction

Malcolm Lui:
So how many of the Fortune 1000 are your customers now

Michael DesRocher:
I think well last time we measure that. At the end of the year we had 16 percent of the Fortune 500. I haven't calculated it out on the Fortune 1000 or so but we've got there was a list in 2017 there was a list of the I forget who published it but there was a list of the 100 largest U.S. employers and at the time 27 percent of those were were our customers. So we've got some good and some good good names and you know those. What's nice about a lot of those customers is they also provide a great feedback and we've got a long list of of features the customer requested features that has her development teams busy.

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah that's part as always. You give your clients what they want. Customers what they want and they'll stick with you and it's easy for other customers to find you and get those same features.

Michael DesRocher:
Threat

Malcolm Lui:
But I guess the key is to make sure you don't want to add features that no one else wants except that one customer.

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah there's always a balance there. But we you know it's just some of them. I mean a lot of them just there's some really good ideas and they're not overly extensive but it's just you know getting to everything you know any kind of development seems to take way longer than you anticipate had to beginning.

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah for sure. So your the last time you look. You said you're at. You help 16 percent of the Fortune 500. What's your target in terms of expanding your coverage and do the Fortune 500. What are you aiming to accomplish this year. For example in terms of expanding your your

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah

Malcolm Lui:
Reach

Michael DesRocher:
I mean if we can you know if we can add that I mean the thing with those customers too is they take a long it's a long sales cycle

Malcolm Lui:
Okay

Michael DesRocher:
You know. So it's a good I think our average our average sales cycle now is like two hundred nine days. It takes a while to to reel him in there's lots of decision makers there's lots of you know security review process stuff that we have to do. So what we're trying to maintain the you know that between 20 and 40 percent growth year over year and and you know it's like any forecast it's you have targets and you do your best but there's no no guarantee.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now Lucky share more details as to why there's a two hundred and nine day sales cycle. I mean it's not a cost issue because it's not a tremendous amount of money relative to to to their overall budgets. So and you mentioned security and decision makers. Why does it take two hundred and nine days.

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. You know if I could answer that in detail you know you know it's just it involved because we're embedding into their current systems right there is just that there's just the typical arc or not typical but there's just the standard change management you know process. So it's not like. And also it's it's more or less generally an enterprise or division wide sale it's not like a one user you know a single user that it's instituted can download something and just try it right it has to be integrated with their exchange mail environment which means team involvement you know and that process is just a slow boat. And you know there's lots of as there should be no there's Pete they want to make sure that we're doing the security properly and that they understand how everything works and then generally there's a a pilot phase to make sure that you know what we say and what we do or the same. And then we get to you know then kind of go live scenario. So it's just when you're dealing with big ships they move slowly.

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean you're a you are talking about a pretty big ships there. Are you able to share who your biggest customers. No worries have not

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah I mean our number one you know our kind of our are our top three the number three I can't say but Microsoft's are our top customer which is just great.

Malcolm Lui:
How many people do they have that you're within the firm that you're servicing

Michael DesRocher:
Well no users it's

Malcolm Lui:
Are a number of employees that are receiving

Michael DesRocher:
Oh

Malcolm Lui:
Communications

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah I mean that.

Malcolm Lui:
From

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. I don't know exactly I mean it's somewhere you know around one hundred and eighty thousand. We also have uh multiple groups within Deloitte and Ernst and Young. So those are a very large you know like hundreds you know hundreds

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah.

Michael DesRocher:
Of thousands of

Malcolm Lui:
Each

Michael DesRocher:
Employees. Yep

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah. Very nice. Now is your tool capable of working in different languages because you talked about the Microsoft Deloitte Ernst Young I mean they have people all around the world

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. So our tool doesn't I mean the you know the interface is relatively simple right it's it's some buttons and English language labels we don't really do the translation in terms of the content you know that's something you know the customer has control over. So they can put the email in whatever language they like

Malcolm Lui:
Very cool. Now for 2019 you mentioned earlier you are looking for to grow your growth 20 to 40 percent per year that's your target house 2019 looking so far the first quarter is behind us now you are on track to hit the 20 to 40 percent range.

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah we're slightly under. March was strong. January was weak and so on balance we came in a little lower a part of the reason to last year January was really strong this year our December was really strong. So again we don't we don't we don't we can't force customers into buying we did. We generally don't play the fake price real price game where we're discounting heavily at quarter end or anything we just the price is the price and we don't we don't. Yeah. Because we're not a public company we're not forced into that quarterly kind of mindset. We just let the deals happen as they happen. So but yeah we're still up and you know things are seeing strong strong lead flow and we've been through that new biz dev process even though we've only been at it for three months here we're seeing some good opportunities there.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. So to hit your 20 percent target audience let's aim a little bit higher so you can be up 40 percent by the end of the year what needs to be done for that to happen.

Michael DesRocher:
Well I know we need to increase our lead flow. Earlier in the year so that we can let that you know that 200 day time span play out. And like any fast growth scenario anymore we're constantly evaluating and modifying processes. You know obviously the processes that we had when we were under a million in sales is significantly different than than what we have now at 6 aiming for 7. So we did a whole bunch of work last year to to modify process and systems and we think we're in good shape to get us. Basically we could double from here without having to make major major overhauls but that was you know that was you know you reach those certain stages and you have to kind of reinvest in how you're organized and what processes you use to support the business

Malcolm Lui:
Now you talk about sales processes and systems or.

Michael DesRocher:
It's everything all the way down. So from you know from from sales to you know implementation know ongoing support development everything you know everything basically needed

Malcolm Lui:
So is your current level of inbound needs sufficient to get you to 40 percent or. Right. This is where Europe is that team needs to step in and juice it up

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah.

Malcolm Lui:
A bit.

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. So because you know with growth like you know. So. So the current level of leads will get us basically right around the same new business that we had last year which obviously would be a lower percentage because we're starting from a higher base. We have a pretty strong you know 90 percent of our customers will renew year over year. So we we maintain and retain a lot of the business. And then we add new customers on top of that. But to get that additional growth we we really need to get that big step process rolling.

Malcolm Lui:
Right and how are they. How are they going about it for the business development are they. What's their technique. What's their strategy for generating leads

Michael DesRocher:
It's I think it's you know pretty standard. You know we have we have targets you know customers like you have these problems which we solve. And here's some you know maybe we'll provide a case study or just some articles that we've written that kind of talk about those problems and how we can solve them that type of that type of approach. And so far the opportunities that we have discovered you know the companies one of them sixty thousand employees. The other one's 140. There are 240000 employees and neither of them knew that you know an internal specialized tool existed. So obviously awareness is still a thing that we need to need to build. So

Malcolm Lui:
Now in terms of them making first contact what techniques are they using. Do you know. Are they cold calling cold. E-mail us

Michael DesRocher:
It's a combination. So yeah I don't think cold the email like there's ever a great strategy. I mean we're a proponent for trying to have conversations so but you know no one answers the phone either. So leaving you know voicemail doing the research on the company to know who you're talking to and what their pain points might be and if we have similar customers in the space that we can talk to we'll usually reference those so that's that's generally our approach is we just try that try that outreach reach you know drop hopefully in staying or educational material to them and then you know over time we hope to get a conversation going.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. So you're trying to gauge them across different channels phone e-mail snail mail daily snail mail

Michael DesRocher:
We haven't. That's one of those things like we did we did try. But like I actually sent a book there was a book on kind of communication measurement in general that I read and liked and I sent it to 10 of my customers This was back in 2016 and I think in only one of them actually received it the rest of them died in the mailroom or whatever.

Malcolm Lui:
Or interesting

Michael DesRocher:
So I don't even know if mail works anymore. You know I mean you know unsolicited marketing mails getting blogs regular mails getting blocked so I don't know

Malcolm Lui:
Right now. What are the job titles of the people who are hoarded decision makers when it comes to choosing and selecting and approving your service.

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. You know it varies from company company. Depends how they're organized generally it's falling in the corporate communications bucket. Sometimes that's in a jar. Sometimes it's in marketing. Kind of depends on how the companies are organized. Usually it's a multi Q2 group like we always I.T. or I.T. Security is always involved as a as a kind of approve or decision maker also. So it's a of a multi touchpoint sale.

Malcolm Lui:
So typically there are more. Would you say there are more the director level sort of folks or V.P. level so folks that you need to engage in contact

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah definitely. Yep definitely the people that. Are essentially responsible for those programs. I mean the users are always the people that are executing all the communications programs right. Not necessarily the people in charge of it but the people in charge of it definitely usually you know want the data and can leverage that reporting data across the organization to support the the programs that they're running

Malcolm Lui:
Right now. How are you finding these people to engage in my own experience in my own business development for my company as well as working with our clients you know finding the C Suite folks are fairly easy right there. They're listed in the face of the company finding as you go down the org chart right find the people who are more in the middle the middle management is more challenging because their profile is not as high. So how does their team go about finding these people to begin with

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. So that's you know you've hit the nail on the head in terms of the degree of difficulty. So I mean you can do you know doing linked in type you know once you understand the company and the organization. There are different databases databases out there that you can leverage to try to identify contacts at various organizations. You know you can just do general the you know some a lot of these people may have other social media accounts besides linked in you know their communications people after also they're out there spreading the word and. And oftentimes we can find them that way.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now I took a look at your online profile with the tools that I have. I see that you doing a little bit of paper click not much by my tools under a hundred bucks a month. So not much SEO it doesn't seem like you're doing a huge amount investment on that front either. What's your thoughts on paper clicking in CEO

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah I'm not sure what data you have because I know the what. I know the honor. You know the the monthly reports I look like we're look at we're spending a lot more than a hundred dollars a month. So

Malcolm Lui:
Mike

Michael DesRocher:
Um

Malcolm Lui:
My

Michael DesRocher:
But

Malcolm Lui:
Tools is limited to paper click ads on Google and being

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah.

Malcolm Lui:
So

Michael DesRocher:
Which

Malcolm Lui:
Maybe

Michael DesRocher:
Is

Malcolm Lui:
Your

Michael DesRocher:
Our. Yeah well we're. We use Google and Bing. But uh I know they

Malcolm Lui:
Or maybe

Michael DesRocher:
Got

Malcolm Lui:
You're sending the

Michael DesRocher:
A

Malcolm Lui:
Ads to a different domain right. I only looked at your Web site. Maybe your company you're

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. Yeah I'd have I'd have to go back through. But yeah I mean we know what we're spending and what we're getting for traffic might be two different things for

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Yeah. My tools are far from perfect. It just gives me a rough proxy.

Michael DesRocher:
Right. Yeah.

Malcolm Lui:
Ok so buy as a paper click and Acela gets source elites in your opinion they needs people who can you know

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. So again traditionally we've been we've been doing more content marketing so I guess content sort of falls in that SVOD category. We did you know once we've figured out our kind of conversion process for the. The paper click ads. We we did up the budget last year. The only downside to that is you know at least 50 percent of the leads that come in from that source are you know what we call the small business type customer. So under those 20 500 employee threshold. So that's why we're looking at you know doing a kind of spinning out a version that could address that you know kind of more of a feature limited easier to implement type solution just because we're already you know we're paying for those leads and we just have nothing to offer them at this stage.

Malcolm Lui:
What's the timing of your the light version of polite mail.

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah that's a good question and I you know I'd like to think we could have you know my objective was to have it by the summer but I mean we have to add a whole bunch of self-service tools that we

Malcolm Lui:
Right.

Michael DesRocher:
Don't have currently. And just like anything development it just takes longer than than you would like or would think it would take. So you know if we can if we can do it this year it'll be great.

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah. You ever read the book a mythical manager

Michael DesRocher:
What's the last part mythical

Malcolm Lui:
The mythical manager. I think that's the name of the book.

Michael DesRocher:
Oh man. Yeah. No I haven't

Malcolm Lui:
Now it's a good book I read it through my computer science tapes and it pretty much talked about you know pretty much how you count on doing two versions of your software because the first version is going to suck versus the second one. You know kind of a team of three being much better than a team of 10. You talked about developing

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah.

Malcolm Lui:
Software

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. And that's. Yeah. And that's definitely part of the thing that we noticed is when we expanded the development team that everything slowed down I mean we did add a lot more process that definitely you know you you reduce the potential of you know releasing bugs into the wilds but it does slow things down and you know there's cost benefits to everything. But I would agree that we were much more efficient with three developers than we are with 14

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah. Yeah. Comes with the territory of three last questions for you. The first one if polite male were to have a billboard on a freeway that's zipping along. What would be your billboard message. And most people only have six seconds before they drive by Billboard. So what's your six second billboard message.

Michael DesRocher:
Let's see. Email isn't going away so let's get smarter about it.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Smart. Email

Michael DesRocher:
Here you go. Yeah we give people a brighter outlook

Malcolm Lui:
Smarter e-mail brighter outlook which is true if you're using Outlook.

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah.

Malcolm Lui:
And my two final questions. Who are your ideal customers and what's the best way for them to reach you and your team.

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. So ideal like you know those companies would like 25 30000 employees and up I think they you know they've got the community you know communicating with a thousand employees is difficult enough when you have 30000. Now it becomes even more difficult. And if you're wasting time on either end either building out the communications programs or sending them out then. You know the cost in terms of a productivity basis really becomes significant. Right. So you're wasting five minutes of employees time a week or even a month and you multiply that by 30000 people now that email. That was irrelevant to most is has cost you quite a bit. So that's really are. All right. He'll customer those large multi location off and global type customers with lots of employees and they can really see a strong cry from some email optimization.

Malcolm Lui:
And what's the best way for them to contact you to explore how you can help them.

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. So I mean our Web site is our contact info but uh you know phone conversations are always the best. So just uh yeah it's probably the least use you know normally people will ping us in an email and then we'll we'll try to start a start a conversation but we actually if you if you call us we answer the phone.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. Would you like to share your web address your email address your phone number.

Michael DesRocher:
Yeah. So play Malcolm and the phone number is 6 0 3 6 1 0 6 1 1 1

Malcolm Lui:
All right. And is there a general sales e-mail they should use if they want to drop an email.

Michael DesRocher:
I think the sales at play Malcolm or info at play Malcolm. Both of those should end up in someone's inbox.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. Got it. Michael it's been awesome having you on my show today. I really enjoyed hearing how you grew your company so fast.

Michael DesRocher:
All right thanks Malcolm I appreciate your uh your time and attention.

Malcolm Lui:
We've been speaking with Michael Desrochers, the Managing Partner of PoliteMail Software, about his company's rapid growth. For interviews with other fast growing, high value sales companies, or to learn how we can accelerate your firm's high value sales through automation, visit Eversprint.com.

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