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Malcolm Lui:
Welcome to the High Value Sales Show of Eversprint.com. I'm Malcolm Lui, the Managing Member of Eversprint, and today we're speaking with Tim Wallace, the CEO of iPipeline, a provider of sales distribution software to the insurance and financial services markets. Welcome to the show Tim.

Tim Wallace:
Thank you Malcolm It's a pleasure to be here this morning.

Malcolm Lui:
Tim, you grew your company's revenue from $73 million in 2014 to $128.5 million in 2017, a 75% increase, and in 2018 you hit around $170 million. Before we talk about how you grew your company so fast, can you briefly share what your company does beyond my quick intro, and how your company differs from the competition?

Tim Wallace:
Yes Malcolm iPipeline is the leading provider of Saas technology to the life and annuity industry. We provide over 16 products primarily starting with the interaction of the agent and the consumer collecting information and doing CRM functions all the way up through the supply chain. And life insurance has a very complex supply chain. It can be sold through multiple channels. It could be sold by agents it can be sold directyt to consumers. you can buy in banks, you could buy it off your stockbroker, you could buy it through brokers and distributors. In the financial community there are multiple channels and our software actually connects that supply chain all together and it is a industry that is regulated on a state basis. So there are a lot of compliance and data issues that we have to deal with as we as we automate it the insurance supply chain. But for the most part, we allow life insurance to be sold in the United States in a very automated fashion. We have very few competitors. Most of our competitors actually have maybe one module versus our complete suite of technologies that provide an internet platform for the industry and we're by far recognized as the number one leader in providing this type of technology solution in the industry. It's a position we've worked 20 years to get to. We're very proud of what we've accomplished and our customers really treat us as a strategic partner versus a vendor or just a technology supplier.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now why haven't your competitors seen. I'm sure they see your success. Why haven't they added all the other modules to be more competitive

Tim Wallace:
I think some of them are now trying add functionality after they've watched us succeed. The challenge becomes is that it's very hard to penetrate our account base because of the connectivity and the complexity. So once we actually connect a carrier through multiple supply chains or multiple distributors out to those sales agents, that are then connected to consumers electronically, to disengage us from that process would be very very hard, it would take years and it would take several millions of dollars for our competitors to try to attack us in that fashion. So most of them have really just tried to stay within their their kind of wheelhouse the one or two modules that they may support and to provide services to either customers that we're not well aligned with or in specific niches that we may not go after.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. And why did you stay only in the life and an annuity space. When I go into other forms of insurance and use your same platform for that

Tim Wallace:
No I'll give you different numbers. I mean I came on board in 2008 with a group of investors and we brought a pipeline and we were doing a run rate of about 9 million in revenue, last year as you indicated we finished the year at 170 million. So literally over the last 11 years we saw the opportunity to take that market leadership position either by building new technology products or by acquiring other organizations in the marketplace that allow us to put that straight through processing platform together. And frankly we grew so fast over that eleven year timeframe we really didn't have the bandwidth to go outside of the life insurance industry. And as we sit here today we're still experiencing double digit growth. We still have phenomenal opportunities to provide more product and more value propositions. We have expanded a little bit into the financial advisor area with stockbrokers because they are a channel for the life insurance industry. If you follow the advisor industry, there going through a lot of change. In Trump's early part of the administration where they struck down the DOL fiduciary laws that Obama had put into place. As I indicated, states have jurisdiction over insurance it's not regulated at a federal level so the DOL law was rejected by Trump. Most of the states are out there passing a fiduciary responsible laws that apply state by state. So again that creates a level of complexity a level of compliance that's extremely important to support with both the agents and really ultimately protecting the consumer to make sure that they're being represented in a very very honest fashion by the people that selling these types of products.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now ee touch upon a few things that led to your fantastic growth of your business. Can you maybe pick the top three drivers of your growth that took you from at least over last four years from 73 million to 170 million.

Tim Wallace:
Our number one driver has been our electronic app platform which we call IGO. We have about 70 carriers on that platform and we have over two thousand products that an agent can sell on that platform. And that really allows them to take an application for life insurance or for an annuity based product process and electronically which reduces their sales cycle time. It also reduces the amount of mistakes, a paper form in this industry typically has a 65 percent error rate. So as carriers look to adopt technology over the last five years we were one of the primary providers of that technology and that really propelled a lot of our growth. Along with that that one technology set coupled with one we bought three years ago. We invested in an underwriting platform that allows carriers to do more electronically in analyzing client information so that they can then determine mortality rates and pricing of products in the marketplace. We introduced what we believe is the best technology in the marketplace. I think the market has agreed with that because that product has skyrocketed, the number of carriers that have adopted the technology over the last four years and probably been the second fastest growing segment of our business

Malcolm Lui:
Okay so the first driver is your ERP platform where you have 70 carriers two thousand different products. And it makes it easier for your agents to do take an application and submit it and get an answer right away. How quickly does it take for someone to give a quote now using this using I go

Tim Wallace:
Well IGO does the application level we do have a quote platform that the agents uses before they ever get to the application.

Malcolm Lui:
Like

Tim Wallace:
I think we ran about 170 million comparable quotes last year in the industry which was probably by far the market leader and agents could quote products very quickly. They can quote term products quite frankly in a couple of minutes. If they're selling permanent products like a universal life or a whole life that may take a little bit longer but the platform that a agent to run multiple quotes at one time. Typically they can turn around fairly sophisticated quotes to customers within an hour or two.

Malcolm Lui:
That's pretty fast. So when it's that an application. How quickly does that application get approved or turned back.

Tim Wallace:
Yes it varies. You have certain products like term that have actual instantaneous issue provisions where a carrier will literally be able to issue a policy within the matter of minutes. You know probably 15 to 20 minutes. That's typically when they when a customer is very young typically between probably 25 and 35 years old, excellent health and no medical history, so there's really not much need to do medical underwriting because they're typically buying a term policy that will expire in 10 20 or 30 years. So the risk of them dying during that time frame is extremely low. Other than an accident. More complex people that are older get policies can go up to 50 to 60 days because of mental medical underwriting requirements. But I would say on average in the United States we track to about 17 days to get a policy issued when it requires medical underwriting i.e. you have to give specimens of your blood and have an EKG done

Malcolm Lui:
Right. And if some agent is out there doing it the old school way their average turnaround time is not going to be 17 days. Icing

Tim Wallace:
Typically about 55 days.

Malcolm Lui:
That's has a big difference

Tim Wallace:
That is a big difference because you risk the customer getting frustrated that it's taking so long, you know you've got to schedule paramed to come to their home or their place of business you know they have set personal schedules of their own they may travel a lot,so its frustrating. So the more condensed you can keep that sales cycle and keep the customer engaged the less chance you have of that customer just getting frustrating. Dropping out of the buying process which can happen up to 10 15 percent of the time.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now. Who. Who. Who's paying for your services at the carriers that's paying you is it the end agencies. He's paying you Who are your paying customers

Tim Wallace:
Typically our customers are the carriers and the distributors and then they provide the technology for the agents to use as part of their employment benefits and other tools to do their jobs so that they they sell the products that generate revenue for the distributors and the carriers.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Got it. And the second driver you mentioned was your underwriting platform that allows your carriers to do better pricing. How does that work now.

Tim Wallace:
What happens is is that when you have the information that you disclose on a application which is probably the largest disclosure of metadata you ever get out as a consumer. You have to disclose your medical history, I'm going to have your earnings history, I'm going to have history about you know health within your family from a generational standpoint. I'm going to know what your hobbies are and know what your vices are, I'm going to get credit card information so I know where you're spending things never even disclosed me. I'm going to pull an MVI on your driving record to see if you're a reckless driver. And then those underwriters and again carriers differentiate themselves by their ability to do predictive underwriting because again the better job they can do predicting when you're going to die. They can price that into the product and that determines their profit stream. So the underwriters will use this technology to basically assimilate millions and millions of records over time to basically build underwriting rules that allow them to build what they would consider to be better estimates of mortality rates and thus build that into the pricing that they put onto the products when they sell that to you as a consumer.

Malcolm Lui:
So this underwriting isn't specific to an individual so much it's based on collecting data analyzing it and then helping them create the rules for them to do their overall pricing

Tim Wallace:
Well it is specific to an individual because if I have high blood pressure like you know let's say a million other records they know what happened to those other million people that had high blood pressure

Malcolm Lui:
Okay.

Tim Wallace:
Or diabetes or cancer you know that had been treated with chemo and cured you know so they use that information based upon their experience with people with similar health records that they've written over the past 50 years

Malcolm Lui:
Ok so more than just providing data for analysis is actually also used in the pricing of the actual policies for the end consumer.

Tim Wallace:
Yes.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. Got it. So you making two drivers of your growth the E app platform and underwriting is there a third one.

Tim Wallace:
While there are several that are coming on very strong as a result of us having all these insurance contracts you know we can normalize the data we're starting to do a lot of work from a data analytics standpoint to provide information back to those agents and distributors and carriers to determine what products sell better to what type of demographics and that could be based upon location from a zip code standpoint it could be based upon income levels. It could be based upon life events you know you've just had know your third child or you've just moved into a much larger house where you're starting a business or you have a partner and you have to plan for you know what happens if one of the two of you in your business should happen to die. How would you pass along the wealth to the other person's family. So a lot of different needs are driven by data life insurance products are actually fairly predictable ascertained when individuals will buy them. So it's a matter of bearing information about people with life events and then using that to put the right product in front of them in the right buying cycle

Malcolm Lui:
Right. So

Tim Wallace:
Intruded.

Malcolm Lui:
It

Tim Wallace:
Traditionally that has not been available for this supply chain to take advantage of it's been more of agents are out there knocking on doors and setting up meetings with the families of the parents and really creating their own demand in the marketplace.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. All right. And you can make it before right now. Yes 70 carriers on your platform. How many other carriers are out there who are not using your platform

Tim Wallace:
There's about 400 targeted carriers in the United States that we market to. I would say we actually have one hundred and thirty carriers that we do business with. I just mentioned 70 we're using the one iGO product

Malcolm Lui:
Okay

Tim Wallace:
Out of the one hundred and thirty carriers we do business with a represent about 90 percent of the market share. So we only have two carriers out of the top 100 that we don't do business with. And then the carriers from like 130 1 through 400 are typically very very small carriers. So for example not all carriers are like New York Life or MetLife where they're multibillion dollar corporations they're carriers as follows the Fraternal Order of Columbus Life Association which basically provides life insurance to you know police officers in Columbus Ohio. That could be an organization that's only three or four million in revenue.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. And the reason why they're now your platform is because based on their three or four million of revenue that

Tim Wallace:
They don't they don't have enough volumes that it makes the makes enough sense to really use technology that they would get the benefits from it.

Malcolm Lui:
Game and we talk about volume what kind of number is that in programming

Tim Wallace:
Well you

Malcolm Lui:
That's

Tim Wallace:
Know you could take an organization like New York life that may write eight hundred thousand policies a year and the Fraternal Order of Police life unit in Columbus Ohio may process 40

Malcolm Lui:
Right. I got it. That's a big difference there. Yeah. Even though they can save time and not 40 it just doesn't make sense relative to the investment

Tim Wallace:
Yeah

Malcolm Lui:
That make

Tim Wallace:
They have one administrator that you know over a year can do 40 applications as well as probably five or six other job areas of responsibility as well

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Got it. So for looking ahead a little bit say for 2019. What are your plans. What are your targets.

Tim Wallace:
Yeah. Our biggest our biggest drive in 2019 is two fold. One is that we bought a policy admin platform in the UK and we're in the process of localizing that into North America. And basically the policy admin platform is the platform that a carrier would use to basically store the information on your policy create your bills store information on claims and basically the back and administrative functions of a carrier. Those systems can range anywhere from a million dollars a year to quite frankly you know hundreds of millions of dollars a year. We believe it's one of our initiatives that will allow us to double the size of the company again in a five to seven year window. So that's one of our big initiatives we're actually working with two carriers right now but finalizing that buying that technology. So our goal would be to get two or three carriers on that platform and then really storm the marketplace because our competitors in that space we think are very vulnerable. And then the other second initiative is continuing to drive our data initiatives. We've really got a lot of opportunity around data analytics and processing a lot of that data and selling valuable information back to not only the agents but the distributors and in the carriers. So those are two big initiatives this year to continue to drive our growth

Malcolm Lui:
So we say set it back. You mean it's like another module that they can buy. That's how you'd sell it back.

Tim Wallace:
We sell it back as a service so that we're providing them information that we've gone through and analyze that data. We've created algorithms to create value out of the information by connecting certain dots together which gives them the ability to cross-sell and up sell and know continue to service their customers in the most effective fashion. It allows them to build better products they can find out why products are moving they have certain complex riders on them that aren't sitting well with the consumers that they may have to take out of products. So it just gives them a wealth of information about you know buying habits patterns and you know what's going to help them help them drive their revenue stream.

Malcolm Lui:
But it's not bespoke data analytics and data analysis right. It's something

Tim Wallace:
No

Malcolm Lui:
Where

Tim Wallace:
It's it's generic size but it's bespoke to the standpoint that we can benchmark you against the industry

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Okay

Tim Wallace:
Or

Malcolm Lui:
Got

Tim Wallace:
You

Malcolm Lui:
It

Tim Wallace:
Can see how you're doing against Carrier B C or D you may

Malcolm Lui:
Like

Tim Wallace:
Not those carriers are but you probably could figure it out because everybody in the industry knows everybody

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah definitely. Now imagine before you are targeting 400 carriers in the U.S. you're doing business with 130. Why aren't the other 270 working with you.

Tim Wallace:
Most of them are really small. And so there's only certain products that that they have the ability to use or buy. And

Malcolm Lui:
Okay

Tim Wallace:
It's just it's just been a matter of our prioritization. I mean like I said we've grown so fast over the last 11 years. It's very complex to bring some of these carriers onto these platforms that I go platform that I mentioned. It's not uncommon for a large carrier to take two or three years to get all their products up on that you know somebody like a New York life or a Mass Mutual may want to put hundreds of products on that electronic application.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Okay. And when you say you're marketing to them how does your marketing work. How do you market these guys.

Tim Wallace:
It's funny you ask that because this is a even though the dollars in this industries are in the trillions. The industry is actually very small as I indicated to you. Those hundred and thirty carriers control 90 percent of the market. We've got about fifteen hundred distributors as customers and for the most part this industry is very very trade show oriented. I think we attend about 50 different trade shows a year. They can be put on by that carrier individually they can be put on by an eye ammo or a distributor that houses you know sub distributors underneath them where they get together and have their annual meetings or you know technology meetings so we do a lot of one to one marketing within those those trade organizations. We also are a thought leader so we're putting on a WebEx typically once a month or once every two months demonstrating a solution that we've accomplished with another customers that are we know our other customers would have an interest in. We do know newsletters we do a lot of sea level executive meetings we run an annual Advisory Board we want to run an annual a CIO board where we take you know 25 of the leading executives offsite and go through strategies with them for a couple of days. So it's really a high touch environment in this sales environment.

Malcolm Lui:
Ok now I took a look at your online marketing presence. I saw zero paper click ads running on your company website. Me and not a whole lot of SEO work as well. Those two or those marking channels is something that that's not relevant for who you're going to reach out to.

Tim Wallace:
It really isn't relevant because everybody in the industry knows who we are. So typically if they have a need even though they may want a competitive analysis done and they'll invite other parties to the table it would be very unusual for us not to be invited to a technology opportunity where we're either a distributor or a carriers making a decision

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Got it

Tim Wallace:
Like like I said it's a really small industry everybody knows one another. You know many of these people that work in carriers you know their entire career path has been through the carrier ranks so they may have worked with five or six carriers over their career timeframe and the distributors all support multiple carriers all the distributors know the carriers and they know each other because you know a distributor may jump families between you know marketing organizations. So it's not hard to market in this vertical.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Not in terms of obstacles. Opportunity shrinks. What you see over the next one year or maybe even bit longer at five years. What obstacles do you see a you need to overcome. What upkeep do you want to grab. What strengths. This platform has the honor to further leverage

Tim Wallace:
I would say our biggest challenge is they're not necessarily obstacles they're just challenges, first of all is finding people. It is a very tight labor market. It has been for over a year and a half. We're actually starting for the first time starting to see major salary escalations for technical people whereby you may be paying somebody sixty five thousand and somebody else will hire them for a hundred. So the resource pool is very very tight right now in the marketplace. I will tell you that you know most technology companies have turnover rates in the low 20 percentile range right now. Ours is literally running around twelve. So we're proud of our culture and our turnover. But you know as we look out over the next five years and we continue to want to grow and attract people finding great people is going to be one of our biggest challenges to continue to execute to the other big challenges security hacking community has just figured out I think over the past two years how valuable and the plethora of information that organizations like ourselves and carriers and distributors have on their consumers. You know as I indicated to you that that application is the richest disclosure of metadata you ever make is the consumer one point your life in hackers really are dying to get their figures on on that type of data to sell. So we spent a fortune.

Tim Wallace:
You know we run you know security audits we used third parties are really making sure that we have the most secure environment possibly in the marketplace we're State of the art on everything. And again we've got to continue to invest there. And you know these guys are always one step ahead of everybody else so you know you've got to you've got to constantly you know assess what's going on from a security standpoint with these hackers in the dark web. And then I think from an opportunity standpoint it's just the ability to take our product suite especially some of our new products. I said talked about policy administrative services we've talked a little bit about underwriting and how that's exploding for us. We didn't talk about things like you know document delivery. Believe it or not less than 1 percent of all insurance policy and correspondence in this industry is done electronically. So we've introduced you know an electronic document delivery platform about two or three years ago. We've got about 25 carriers on that platform now and that's another product line that continues to do extremely well for us. So our focus is always around you know how how can we provide more value to our customers. What are their pay points. Where do they need help it as long as we can do that and provide them a cost effective effective solution. They'll continue to buy from us

Malcolm Lui:
Right in regards to the document delivery is a more regulatory type issue that you're facing we're required to deliver stuff in writing into

Tim Wallace:
It's not it's not regulatory at all it's just efficiencies. I mean it costs the average carrier probably about 50 dollars to deliver you your insurance policy because what happens is is today most of those carriers have to print those policies out from the mainframe computer. They then have to be collate manually because they don't come out in orderly fashion. They're then copied several copies are bound. They typically keep one typically today their imaging that they then ship those down to the distributor the distributor will look at them they may add some of their own marketing material to them. They'll keep a copy and they may image a copy then they give it to the agent. Agents going to do the same thing he's good at his marketing material to it. You know he's going to make a copy of it or image it and then ultimately he's going to get his in his car and go deliver that to the end user customer who bought from Sol that's done. You can think about how long it takes with the postage costs are what the printing costs are the coalition costs. And if you could just create a PDA FSM put it on our platform we can deliver it only securely but we also have techniques where we can potentially up sell the customer we deliver that policy and basically store the source for them. So there's a lot of advantages to it. This industry's just historically been 20 years behind the rest of the financial services industry.

Malcolm Lui:
It's nothing other than inertia keeping them from moving on to a paperless model

Tim Wallace:
Yeah it's inertia caused by human behavior. You know I like to say that the bell curve for a cell phone was probably a year and a half to two years. You know early adoption you know mainstream and then you know late stage you know getting off of it. I would say that the bell curve in this industry is typically about you know 25 years where you're at seven years on early adoption you know 10 10 years mainstream and then seven years they get off of it. And that's probably not much of an exaggeration.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now. You you mentioned before the challenges with hiring people. What are your plans on overcoming that challenge.

Tim Wallace:
Well I mean all you can do is everything possible. One is you know you've got to get on and make sure that people are aware of what you're doing in the marketplace. We've got 11 locations around North America candidate in the U.K. So we've become very flexible one you know where you can work geographically. We do try to hire by 30 percent of our new hires every year college grads. Those are a little bit easier to obtain the experienced workforce people. So it's really just a mixed bag of you know providing the right benefits the right work environment having the right culture creating you know an environment where the work they do has true purpose and they can see that. So again I think you know historically we've been really good at it. We just have to continue to execute as it gets harder and harder to find these people

Malcolm Lui:
Or recruiting all in-house or do you turn to recruitment firms that help you

Tim Wallace:
We do all of our recruiting in-house with our own recruiters. I believe that if you're hiring a lot of people it's better to control your own destiny than to outsource it to a third party that doesn't necessarily share your same values as yours. You're say objectives

Malcolm Lui:
Right. So how many people do you have right now on your team

Tim Wallace:
We have about 700 and we're hiring about 100 people a year

Malcolm Lui:
And when you image before how one of your the the one of your product lines that you acquired in the UK that you're that you're rolling out can potentially double your business are you expecting you have doubled the employees as well.

Tim Wallace:
Yeah. This year actually depending upon how that goes that hundred could be one hundred fifty to one hundred eighty five. We really get that P.A. system incorporated into a couple of key contracts.

Malcolm Lui:
Now do you find that the people you hired Germany are a good fit or or you find that maybe a year later that they might not have been the best hire the way your industry works.

Tim Wallace:
Now we're pretty good at it. We really track behavioral attributes to make sure that we're hiring the right type of people that fit within our organization. Typically if they don't come from within the industry it is a good nine month learning curve for them to get up to speed. The key thing is to provide them you know as much retraining as we can during that. Not that that nine month time frame so that they feel like they can make a contribution you know while they learn the industry

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Got it. Three ask questions for you. And if you were to have a billboard it sounds like you don't really need one because the industry isn't that big and everyone knows everyone else. But if you were to have a billboard what would be your billboard message.

Tim Wallace:
Boy it would probably be something like a pipeline delivers the highest value proposition of technology to the insurance and financial services industry. Come see us

Malcolm Lui:
All right. There's a lot of words that fit on a billboard.

Tim Wallace:
Now. Well you ask a question I've never really given much thought to because I've never had a billboard

Malcolm Lui:
Well when you're ready I guess you have a you have a you have something ready to go now.

Tim Wallace:
Why have a starting point let's just say

Malcolm Lui:
Yes

Tim Wallace:
Look exactly like these a lot of Polish

Malcolm Lui:
Here. Or maybe just the pipeline now might be good enough since people already know you guys.

Tim Wallace:
Right.

Malcolm Lui:
So find two questions Who are your ideal strategic partners and what's the best way for them to contact your company.

Tim Wallace:
Yeah. Our ideal strategic partners are really organizations that are really trying to support life insurance and annuity sales and do it by using technology and really believe in enabling their workforce with technology in that literally as I stated early in the conversation covers a gambit of organizations It's thought only you know carriers like household names like you know nationwide insurance and pack life in Hartford. You know it's also distribution companies that you may or may never heard of like BB&T and Highland Capital and marketing organizations like life marker brand Co. And then you get into the broker dealer space where some of our largest you know value propositions are with organizations like LPL and Raymond James and Morgan Stanley. And then there's a whole tier below them that are you know smaller financial distributors that again there's a couple thousand of them in the United States that you may never heard of. So those are the organizations that we have tremendous value propositions to you know and like I said it's a very old school industry and that we see most of these people trade shows. But again if they want to reach us I would just say pick up the phone and call us. You know we still answer our phones here. We don't use automation to do that. We want to make sure if a customer calls in we get them on the first touch. I believe in that and if not just drop us an email. I will respond immediately to it.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. Would you like to share your phone number and or your email address or your even your web address.

Tim Wallace:
Yeah my email address. I'll take anything up. I answer my phone all the time. It's my e-mail address is t Wallace that I pipeline dot com and my direct I 4 8 4 8 7 0 6 2 2 2

Malcolm Lui:
All right. It's great to be accessible. Yeah. Let me know how many people call you as a result of this podcast.

Tim Wallace:
You may be my worst enemy or my new best friend. I don't know which

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah. We'll find out. All right. It's been great speaking with you Tim and learning about how you grew a pipeline so fast.

Tim Wallace:
Okay. Well thank you very much. And I wish you the most success in your future as well.

Malcolm Lui:
We've been speaking with Tim Wallace, the CEO of iPipeline, about his company's rapid growth. For interviews with other fast growing, high value sales companies, or to learn how we can accelerate your firm's high value sales through automation, visit Eversprint.com.

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