Digital Transformer – Michael Kalman of MediaCrossing

Michael Kalman, the CEO and Founder of MediaCrossing, grew his company’s revenue from $2.6m in 2014 to $13m in 2017, a 407% increase, and now they are on track to hit $23m this year.  

MediaCrossing helps agencies and advertisers achieve better results through digital advertising.  

In this interview with Eversprint‘s Malcolm Lui, Michael shares how he and his team accelerated their high value sales by:  

  • Hiring the best people and developing the best platform and processes, so that their team can deliver exceptional client results.  
  • Providing their clients with the same tool set of multi-national brands via their programmatic technology.
  • Investing heavily in the first year of a new client relationship so that they will be intimately familiar with their brand, customers and objectives.  
  • Hiring carefully, not just on skills and fit with their culture, but also to ensure that they build up capacity too far beyond their client needs.  

MediaCrossing Interview - (computer generated transcript) (transcribed by Sonix)

Download the "MediaCrossing Interview - (computer generated transcript)" audio file directly from here. It was automatically transcribed by Sonix.ai below:

Malcolm Lui: Welcome to the High Value Sales Show of Eversprint.com. I'm Malcolm Lui, the Managing Member of Eversprint. And today we're speaking with Michael Kalman, the CEO and Founder of MediaCrossing a fast growing company that helps agencies and advertisers achieve better results through digital advertising. Welcome to the call Michael.

Michael Kalman: Thank you so much for inviting me.

Malcolm Lui: Michael. You grew your company's revenue from $2.6 million dollars in 2014 to $13 million in 2017, a 407% increase. And now you're on track to hit $23 million in 2018. To get to where you are today, what's the one thing your team had to do consistently and successfully over the past few years?

Most important success factor: hiring the right people.

Michael Kalman: Handful of things I think before we even talk about outcomes and delivering success for clients. For us the most important thing was hiring the right people. Building culture building a culture where people aren't afraid to fail. Build a culture where you know people can work both autonomously when needed but also work collaboratively to help our clients achieve excellence when it comes to their digital media campaigns.

Malcolm Lui: When you say achieve excellence. Can you I guess two questions. One I went through your website. I know that you provide your service through a team of marketing strategists as well as programmatic advertising. Can you add some color as to what programmatic advertising needs

Michael Kalman: Yes very simply programmatic advertising is a frictionless way to buy media. I've been in the media business for quite some time and when I started we had to negotiate with media partners an insertion order. Everything now is done electronically. It's no different than high speed trading except in this particular case where we're trading in digital media impression which is essentially a uncorrelated unregulated asset class the way we look at it and it's our job to run digital media campaigns for clients that helps them achieve some sort of KPI. What does performance need to be for them to hit a revenue goal. An awareness goal and ultimately our job is to help our clients build a one to one relationship with their customers. And that's the driving force of everything we do. Our people sit in rooms together and brainstorm and build strategies and then plans all dedicated in helping our clients punch above their weight maximize their media spend and again deliver performance when it comes to running their budgets for our platforms.

Malcolm Lui: Go back to your earlier answer about the key the key drivers to your success. And you mentioned about executing with excellence. Can you dive into the deeper on that as to what the dimensions of excellence that your team strives for.

People, Platform, Process

Michael Kalman: Right I know there's a lot of competitors in this space. The barriers to enter the digital media space are de minimis. I think it's our job to not manage client expectations but establish them and then exceed them. And I want to make sure that we are using the absolute best people to build this these campaigns for clients. I want to make sure that we're using the absolute best technology platforms and I want to make sure that we've built a process that is able to on a regular recurring scalable basis to build you know to build performance performing campaigns for clients so we call it the three P's people platforms process. But our job is really to build very custom strategies for clients. We have clients in the higher ed space we have clients in the live events space pharma clients liquor clients beverage clients but the common thread with all those clients is that you know they're marketing a product they need to get not not not just awareness for that product but they need to sell in a hyper local basis so they can get inventory turn and we really deal did build a handful of strategies to get them there. And I think the most notable thing that we invested our money in is our business intelligence platform that allows our clients to see what's happening in their campaigns down to the impression level

Malcolm Lui: Now you're right about digital advertising. You're talking about beyond just showing ads on Google Facebook LinkedIn and whatnot right. You talk about advertising

Michael Kalman: Right.

Malcolm Lui: Beyond

Michael Kalman: I mean

Malcolm Lui: Just those platforms. What other

Michael Kalman: That's

Malcolm Lui: Platforms

Michael Kalman: Absolutely correct.

Malcolm Lui: What other platforms are you running advertising on on behalf of your clients

Digital advertising across multiple channels and platforms.

Michael Kalman: So when we started we were running primarily display and in the last six years we've evolved this this universe of tactics to include display video mobile social streaming audio connected TV native advertising and search. In addition to running more traditional tactics like TV radio print and on home. So yes it's a digital first focus it's a data first focus for MediaCrossing and my colleagues when we think about how to propel a client's brand certainly deliver a message. But we're reusing all the tactics available to us to provide those levels those levers for success

Malcolm Lui: How much of your process is automated and how much of it requires a significant level of human monitoring in and fine tuning

Michael Kalman: It's probably 70 percent automated with some of the tools we've built and with some of the tools we utilize from our vendors. And it's a solid 30 percent with digital media experts sitting on top of what we call demand side platforms monitoring the efficacy and the production of the buyers we're running at any given time. But yes

Malcolm Lui: Right. OK so these guys are literally watching it like a hawk 24 by 7 or your system set up where they can have a life a reasonable work hours

Michael Kalman: Well because we're running media every single day there there's literally people working every single day like the traditional agencies I work for you know in the 90s where you know you were halfway Fridays in the summer and you were off on the weekends. We have a team of strategy and campaign personnel looking at campaigns to make sure that things that run over the weekend run properly. But most of the time we're programming the platforms to help us deliver a certain outcome. But there is no substitute for really good experience. You know platform people to to watch these campaigns to make sure that they're delivering the way we've designed them to deliver

Malcolm Lui: Right. I mean for sure you don't wanna waste your advertising spend. Right. Just because something is not working. Right

Delivering media for a client is similar to flying a plane to transport passengers.

Michael Kalman: Yeah I mean these are these platforms are. My analogy is if if you are you're running these platforms it's kind of like flying your own plane. We suggest that if you want to go from New York to Florida you get an airline ticket. You don't try to get there yourself. Alicia a trained pilot delivering media on behalf of a client is no different than flying a plane. It takes really smart people that have worked in these platforms that know the very nuances of how to traffic campaigns and operationalize them and then you know optimize what's happening to to run them effectively so we're professional buyers of media. Our people are trained in all the new technology. But our job is really to remove that burden from a brand and have our people you know be an extension of their team to deliver these campaigns.

Malcolm Lui: Right now before you said that your campaigns are designed to achieve a certain action with explicit actions have your clients want it to achieve from their campaigns

Michael Kalman: Well we have one client that embarked on digital transformation but 90 percent of their sales three years ago were the big pharma pharmacy companies CBS Rite Aid Walgreens etc. and what they were finding is that they were losing shelf space to private label and they decided to have a digital first strategy where they they partnered with Amazon to be able to sell the full line of all their products. It was our job to help lead the digital transformation efforts for that brand run advertising drive people to a page within Amazon that we worked with Amazon to create. So our clients could get healthier on products that were frankly discontinued by the big box farm pharma pharmacies. Our job was to migrate behaviors changed the way people bought our client's product. So the KPI in this particular case was sales and our job was to push people to amazon so they could transact. And in three years 90 percent of our clients business runs through Amazon without the threat of private label. And a lot of their other clients a lot of their other sir sorry vendors are the traditional you know pharmacy companies.

Malcolm Lui: Now how did you find this client or did the client find you. And how was this problem identified identified by the client or also identified with the help of your team.

Michael Kalman: We started working with the client and we were introduced the client has a referral from a client that was happy with our efforts. What was interesting is that when we met them they were still knocking their head against her against the wall trying to sell lots of different products to traditional pharma retailers. And then a year into our relationship they had this epiphany that they could move more product through Amazon they'd be less restricted in the amount of skews they'd be able to offer and Amazon. And we have them migrate and execute on having the Amazon first strategy

Malcolm Lui: Now did they come up with the epiphany or is this something that you your team has suggested to them as a way of solving their problem of losing shelf space to the private labels.

Michael Kalman: Yeah. No I wouldn't want to take credit for having them increase their sales channel relationship with Amazon. I think they saw initial success by taking some of the discontinued items from the big box retailers and moving those into Amazon and having us advertise. They saw so much velocity and sales that they thought that hey this would be a great platform for us to sell the entire our entire product line. And so what we did is we built campaigns based on the different products based on seasonality and geography and other characteristics to reach people that would have purchased this stuff at retail if they could find it and we drove people to Amazon to make them get them comfortable with the assortment of products that were available and encouraged them to transact

Malcolm Lui: Fantastic yeah. I personally have had that happen to me as well. I used to buying something from your favorite retailer. You know exactly where it is and then one day it's gone right now. Now like now what. That's great

Michael Kalman: Right

Malcolm Lui: Having that option.

Michael Kalman: Right.

Malcolm Lui: So Michael in the pharma case study you just shared with me. You mentioned that you found this client through a referral. What percentage of your new business comes from referrals

50-60% of their business comes from referrals.

Michael Kalman: I would say a solid 50 or 60 percent of our business comes from referrals which is why I encourage our team to deliver excellence in terms of the relationships we've had are our best most meaningful clients are the best salespeople for our platform and our brand. I think I'm fortunate that the team here is really cognizant of the fact that our clients are the best way and the best resource for us to secure new business. And that means that we've got to always be delivering with them so they feel comfortable recommending us.

Malcolm Lui: Does your teen ask for the referrals proactively or you just take it as they come

Michael Kalman: I've always encouraged our clients to refer us in some cases they're pretty active and doing that. We have a handful of clients that have referred us to three or four pieces of business in some cases. You know we've got to really perform before a client goes at risk and makes that referral happen. But look at the end of the day we're really fortunate that a big chunk of our business comes inbound as a result of the nice things our clients say about the things we've done for them

Malcolm Lui: Domestic. Now you mentioned 50 percent of your new business comes from referrals. Where do the other 50 percent come from.

Michael Kalman: So we have salespeople we have relationships managers we have account managers and we have people that are sort of like evangelists in the marketplace that are really wired in and they talk to other agencies and other clients about how we can solve for x and how we can deliver value for their media spend. So part of our part of our leads come into referrals. Part of it comes in through referral sources that we contract with and we pay them a finder's fee if they deliver new business. Part of it is inbound leads that come into our website and go into our marketing automation program. Again big chunk of it is lead nurturing with our own internal sales team. And you know I think part of it is we spend a lot of money on travel. We get out and meet new people all the time. It's our goal to have at least every every 10 days every 15 days a new business pitch a presentation to somebody with a budget a professional buyer of media where we're talking about the things we've built for other clients. We share case studies and our successes in the space

Malcolm Lui: Can you share how many clients you had back in 2014 when you were at two point six million. And how many

Michael Kalman: Like

Malcolm Lui: That you have today. Now that you're at 23 million

Michael Kalman: Yeah. In about in 2014 we had three solid clients

Malcolm Lui: Ok

Michael Kalman: And now we have about 17 clients of varying different varying sizes.

Malcolm Lui: Right. But your so your clients are actually spending quite a bit with you. I mean 17 flying to 2018. Roughly 23 million for this year. So there are on average spending of a little bit over a million dollars a year with you then

Minimum $1m of annualized billings. Investing heavily the first year to learn more about their brand and brand goals.

Michael Kalman: That's exactly right. When we started our business we were looking to secure you know three months of semi guaranteed revenue at twenty five thousand dollars a month. The initial contract was for approximately seventy five thousand dollars. What we realized by the end of 2015 we really couldn't operate our business unless we get we got clients to commit to a minimum of a half a million dollars over for six months. And in 2016 we move that number to a million dollars and since almost two years ago we really don't take. We don't take on relationships where we can't find a million dollars in annualized billing a handful of reasons why number one we're going to invest an awful lot of money immersing ourselves into everything about the brand. We're going to spend an awful lot of time and money being face to face with the client the brand leaders within the client the salespeople the finance people every department that can help us learn more about the brand and the things that that brand has his brand goals. And by the time we build this custom business intelligence platform this dashboard that allows a client to see what's happening in our campaigns in the first year I wouldn't say we're losing money but we haven't made any money in the relationship.

Michael Kalman: So at a million dollars with all the time we've we spend to onboard them plus some of the things we build for clients we really start to see the profit of a piece of business materialize almost in year two. And by the time you're three hits you know our clients have seen some success. They've been a part of you know something that's been interesting for them. If you take a look at the business that we have it's mostly focused on middle market clients that are trying to embark on digital transformation. The top 100 agencies in the top 100 advertisers those aren't MediaCrossing prospects. It's the top after the top 200 advertisers. We really do pickup campaign dollars budgets from you know to two hundred eight hundred size range and that's because the people we have the tools we have are really ideally suited to help that middle market client get the same access to tools and technology that the biggest agencies provide the biggest clients. But we're able to do it at a fraction of the cost.

Malcolm Lui: So for your growth in your business how much of that came from adding on new clients which I know is significant right as he went from three clients two to 17. And how much of that came from just doing more business with your client doing more campaigns bigger campaigns

Michael Kalman: Yeah I mean I would say 70 percent of that growth came from a handful of clients that we started with a number of years ago that were very very small when we started. And we we when we think about digital transformation we think about helping a client migrate from TV radio print and out of home to a more verifiable attributable type of medium which are the various tactics we talked about that are all digital centric. And as clients are seeing success from what we were delivering in platforms they took TV dollars or radio dollars or print or not a home dollars when they migrated that to us to spend on digital media platforms we set on

Malcolm Lui: Right. So you know when you're looking for Klein to commit to a million dollars per year and does that include ad spenders I'd just for your team's efforts in the platform and

Michael Kalman: Man.

Malcolm Lui: In the reporting

Michael Kalman: Yeah that is mostly working media dollars. That is revenue associated with running these campaigns

Malcolm Lui: Ok so buying the media is on top of this or is that included in the one million

Michael Kalman: That would be included in the 1 million

Malcolm Lui: Okay so that's a you know it's a pretty and I think it's a significant amount a million dollars per year. How do you find clients that are have the capability to make that sort of commitment to begin with. How do you find the leads of companies that can do this.

Michael Kalman: Well we subscribe to a number of syndicated sources to show that that that report where clients are spending their money. We're a B2B provider of marketing services. We've got a number of experienced people here that you can take the syndicated research we have access to plus their market knowledge and for almost every business category we can identify the top three spenders

Malcolm Lui: Ok

How they helped a regional bank build a one-on-one relationship with their customers.

Michael Kalman: And we can we know that I've been doing this since 1990 and I can tell you with a certain degree of precision we know who spends the most money in the live events space the over the counter pharma space the controlled drug space the adult beverage space literally we could click down a bunch of different categories by and large. Are we're not always working with the number one leader in the category. I give you a good example. We started picking up regional banks around North America this year. I think we provide regional banks with the ability to hyper local level build a one to one relationship with their customer. Banks have a unique challenge. They they oftentimes in these regional and disparate markets have a pretty heavy bricks and mortar footprint but young people today aren't going to banks to open bank accounts. It takes 90 seconds to open a Venmo account and unless somebody is in the workforce and they need a bank to take on a direct deposit they seldom open a new a new checking account. It's not like it was years ago and our job is to help banks build a one to one relationship in their trading area with customers based on different characteristics.

Michael Kalman: So in some cases for these banks we're running campaigns that are targeted towards under 30 years old. This could be one of their first bank accounts. In some cases we are running campaigns that are about helping people drive awareness against getting a mortgage. In some cases we're running campaigns against running campaigns to get Hilux home equity line of credit. So with every single bank we've taken on we've taken a look at all the products that they offer and we have figured out a digital strategy to reach that ideal customer based on the data we have access to. So yes we're able to reach people under 30 that are that are professional that are looking to not only open a checking hem but by the first house and get a mortgage. And so our customers at Citibank and Wells Fargo and JP Morgan it's the middle market local regional bank that's been around for a hundred years and is looking for a way to compete in an in a digital marketplace where there's lots of competition.

Malcolm Lui: So what typically was your sales process how long does it take for you to find one of these middle market companies and have them engaged in and then have them become a client

Michael Kalman: I would say end to end from the time we have a meeting to the time we go through the the the commercial terms and the agreements it's probably between 60 and 90 days. It used to be a lot quicker but that I think was when we were dealing with much much smaller advertisers. As we've gotten larger we are dealing with more sophisticated advertisers. Most of these are not new buyers of media. These are professional buyers of media. In many cases these companies have professional procurement departments so we have to negotiate terms and conditions with a head of procurement or head of more common procurement. So from the time we have a first meeting to the time we have a second meeting to the time we finish up a contract and onboard a client secure their span and coordinate with the other agencies they work with it wouldn't be uncommon for it to be at the low end 60 days but probably more towards 90 days.

Malcolm Lui: So at the end of 60 or 90 days are they signing at a million dollar contract with you or are they starting with a pilot test first

Michael Kalman: We're doing very few pilots you know. I think where we sit in this marketplace is if a client's going to choose us they're going to choose us based on again the people the platforms and the process we've built. It's rare for us to be doing pilots. It's more often than not that we are looking at new clients that have you know six to 10 million in advertising spend that's digital when you count their non digital there could be another 20 million or 30 million dollar clients where we're looking at you know a million as a minimum where we're finishing up a contract with an advertiser right now where in 2019 probably spend about three and a half million dollars for MediaCrossing. And it's been our job over the last few months not only to land a contract and a strategy but build that into a statement of work and have meetings with a lot of the stakeholders so we're ready to hit the ground running. You know the second week in January

Malcolm Lui: So you know when you tell me that your clients are signing a million dollar contract literally million dollar commitments right over twelve months in 90 days.

Michael Kalman: Correct

Malcolm Lui: That seems so fast to me. Is it because these companies are just comfortable spending these amounts of committing to them. It's not an unusual contract for them.

Michael Kalman: I don't think it's an unusual contract. These are typically evergreen budgets. I think what makes us unique is that we raise professional capital from a bunch of family offices. When we started this business I wanted to provide middle market clients again with the same tools and technologies that the largest agencies provide

Malcolm Lui: S s

Michael Kalman: A lot of the largest clients in the world.

Malcolm Lui: S s

Michael Kalman: And by the time

Malcolm Lui: S s

Michael Kalman: We get to a middle market

Malcolm Lui: S s s

Michael Kalman: Client

Malcolm Lui: S s s

Why clients choose them over their competitors

Michael Kalman: They've usually met with two or three of our competitors. And at the budget levels they're at. Those competitors to MediaCrossing don't have a solution that meets their need. So usually by the time they put us through the ringer on half pay or we've had numerous face to face meetings and we shared our the business intelligence platform that we've built that we're going to show that we're going to provide to them when they work with us. These things go pretty quickly because they see the tools that we've built to really accommodate their spend. So I'm kind of surprised to in some cases where you know we've got a piece of business in the pipeline. Buy five and a half million dollars hasn't closed yet. This is a this is a client that's extremely smart. They know where they want to spend their money. They've had a number of agencies work with them over the last couple of years. They've had a lot of different CMO. They haven't found the right partner internally or externally to you know articulate against their strategy and I think they look to us to come in and help again lead that transformation. So I guess when you think about growing a business in the very beginning again we were looking at clients who could spend twenty twenty five thousand dollars a month and now given the size and scope of the business and given the clout we have in the marketplaces as a company that's performed really in for six years in a relatively young industry which is you know the digital media space especially on the programmatic side. These these transactions have gotten bigger for us. They've gotten larger for sure

Malcolm Lui: So. Or 2018. You're right. You're going to end a year and a little bit over twenty three million with seventeen

Michael Kalman: Right

Malcolm Lui: Clients. What are your goals and objectives for

Michael Kalman: 2019 probably will be over 30 million. My my goal and this is what we've shared with our capital partners and our people internally as we call it the race to 50 are we want to be at 50 million dollars in the next two years. I think given our pipeline given what we're doing with current clients it would be my expectation that we'll be able to do it. It certainly won't be easy because at the same time we're growing our client base. We're growing our employee base and you know the nation literally is at full employment finding people that can fit in our culture people that can fit in to really our clients culture because a lot of times our people are really an extension of our clients own teams in finding people that can not only work for us more combat for clients but also deliver excellence and be really just thoughtful and considerate is really the hardest thing to deal with.

Malcolm Lui: Right. So it's tough to find good people when you find them you don't want to go anywhere else. Right and it's easy given how it's full employment right now.

Michael Kalman: Right. That's exactly right.

Malcolm Lui: So is that the biggest challenge you have now of of in your race the 50 just finding the people that help you do that it help you to help you get there

Michael Kalman: I think so. I mean where we are in Connecticut it's a very very competitive marketplace. So we've had to get we've we've had to get smart about the types of people we hire and how we train them. We have a relatively low turnover rate. Given the size given that given the norms in this industry and we will make investments in people we will be more than competitive salaries. We're super competitive when it comes to benefits. You know everything from company paid insurance and for one key match and all that good stuff. But the most important thing is as we're filling the funnel in the pipeline for new business at the same time a concurrent activity is finding suitable employees that can help scale the business. It's gratifying for me as one of the founders to look at the team and see the faces that were here from the very beginning. And it's really my goal to provide the various teams with the resources they need to achieve not only success for our clients but success for MediaCrossing so definitely it's it's been it's been an eye opener as we staff because I want to make sure that we are really building the best the best team possible so we sometimes make mistakes we sometimes you know have hiccups we made a couple of poor choices this year when it came to a couple of new hires but conversely I I feel that we're really fortunate in a fast growing space with the team we've had how those those people have grown with some of the people that we've had selected this year they really did contribute the culture they really did assimilate well into how we're delivering value our clients here at

Malcolm Lui: In my notes and depending on which source I look at. One source says you have 15 employees. Another source says you have 22. How many people are working for you now.

Michael Kalman: 25

Malcolm Lui: Twenty five. Okay so you have 25 people with servicing collectively 17 clients so to get to 50 million your probably sounds like you might have to double your team then right from 25 to 50

Michael Kalman: Correct. Correct. And so we've we've already taken some steps to think about how that would look. We're actually expanding the physical office we're breaking down some walls and taking up more space here in Connecticut. We've already figured out some of the rules we need that are important to ensure that we have viability as we grow the business. We'll be adding as we grow people in the account management side of our business strategy and operations as well as accounting. So yeah stay tuned it's gonna be interesting to see how we're staffing as we're adding more revenue to the platforms

Malcolm Lui: Yeah I mean from what you shared with me it sounds like you're a lead generation your conversion process much of that doubt in from a

Michael Kalman: Right.

Malcolm Lui: New client acquisition perspective. Would you say you're equally out in on the new hiring process as well

Michael Kalman: No. Again I think it's a challenge for us. And I think that you know what I learned one of the lessons I learned is that you know if you can't be good at everything as a CEO and you have to be comfortable adding others to kind of fill in where you aren't going to perform at the level that's needed to grow the business. And so we added a few executives to the business that are particularly good at operations and finance and in helping to find and curate the right talent to make sure we have a springboard for growth. So I like the idea of dialing that in I think we're still doing that. I think we still have some more work to do I think that's definitely a pinch point in the business in terms of the growth. We anticipate

Malcolm Lui: Now which comes first to you. Do you hire more more people and have more capacity to eat. Then you add more clients or you add clients and go Oh man we need more people. Let's go find the people quick

The delicate dance of hiring.

Michael Kalman: It's a really delicate dance and I and I would suggest to any entrepreneur that's listening to this in the very beginning you don't pre hire because revenue is going to come in it's going to be really clumpy it won't be linear. And what you'll end up doing is if you pre hire people before revenue the forecast is never right. Even if you have the best of intentions and the best FPGA people you'll end up having too much capacity and you'll end up having to fire people to be able to make your Ebola goals. And what I would suggest is that you have to think about the amount of people you have and what their capacity is and the core group of people that sit in the business are the ones that are ultimately if they stick it out will be the highest compensated people in your organization. Because during the lean times when you were adding business they were working on weekends they were working on holidays. So I would say for the first three years minimum of any new business you might have a financial model that says you can hire five people to do X don't hire them all unless you have unlimited access to capital and your investors don't care. But that is highly unusual. Your investors are going to want to know how long it takes for you to be profitable. They're going to want to know what it when you're going to turn a corner and burning cash and the smell of burning cash is the smell of this is no different than the smell of burning flesh.

Michael Kalman: It is unmistakable. And you really you really really really have to think about the people that you bring on in the very beginning and they're going to wear lots of hats and they're going to spend a lot of time working on stuff that isn't quarter their expertise. But before you before you hire you have to really have the revenue. What I would say is as we've matured and we've built our balance sheet and it's really quite significant we then can deploy some of that capital and make investments in in areas where we know that if we don't have those areas established we won't be able to secure that three and a half or five and a half million dollar piece of business. So the first three or four years we spent our time being very judicious about how we added people as we built some financial models on top of the existing business we had. We spent a fair amount of time really just thinking about what are the essential folks necessary so we could accept larger pieces of business. And so as we go to the race to 50 we've added we've had in a little capacity. I wouldn't say that we've added enough capacity to cover our you know our our goal our our end goal in three years but we've added enough capacity where we'll get through most of next year without having to add another person

Malcolm Lui: To last questions for you. Michael first

Michael Kalman: Yasser

Malcolm Lui: One. Who are your ideal customers. And then the second one is what's the best way for them to reach out to

Michael Kalman: So are our ideal customer. In many cases is an aspirational customer it's a customer that's probably ranked to three or four in a very competitive category and they want to figure out a way to leapfrog the nearest competitor we've really built this platform to provide again middle market clients with access to the best tools and the best knowledge to help them reach their goals. So what I would say is if if a client wishes to reach us to talk about how we're helping other clients chart digital transformation we're able to use data in the platforms we have to reach people when they're ready to make a purchasing decision of either a commodity item or high ticket item they should definitely reach out to me. Michael at MediaCrossing we'd love to chat with prospects part of again. Our goal is to meet every other week with somebody that has some sort of challenge in terms of reaching a customer. In our Strategy people in our account management management team come together and help our clients figure out what the best course of action is and how to best spend their marketing dollars to achieve that outcome.

Malcolm Lui: Elastic. Michael Michael thank you very much for joining us today and sharing how you accelerated your company's high value sales.

Michael Kalman: I appreciate your time I thought your questions were terrific and I'm hoping your audience finds value in what we talked about today and if they have questions again I'm Michael at MediaCrossing and I look forward to sharing more.

Malcolm Lui: All right. And like we've been speaking

Michael Kalman: Thank

Malcolm Lui: With

Michael Kalman: You.

Malcolm Lui: Michael Kalman the CEO and founder of MediaCrossing about his company's rapid growth for interviews with other fast growing high value sales companies or to learn how we can accelerate your firm's high value sales through automation visit ever Sprint dot com.

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