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Malcolm Lui:
Welcome to the High Value Sales Show of Eversprint.com. I'm Malcolm Lui, the Managing Member of Eversprint, and today we're speaking with Ryan Wright, the Founder and CEO of DoHardMoney.com, a provider of short-term funding for real estate investors. Welcome to the show Ryan.

Ryan Wright:
Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Malcolm Lui:
Ryan, you grew your company's revenue from $2.5 million in 2015 to $6 million in 2018, a 142% increase. Before we talk about how you grew your company so fast, can you briefly share what your company does beyond my quick intro, and how your company differs from the competition?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah, you bet. We're kind of unique because we're we're in a niche service, so we target and go after people that are aspiring or scaling real estate investors or people that are looking for financial freedom. We provide them tools, resources, software and also capital so that they can make investments and get passive income or additional additional income. So that's kind of the big highlight of of what we do and it makes us different. A lot of companies will either offer like real estate coaching or those things or they'll offer the capital, but they don't offer both of them. We found a need in the marketplace and and have been fortunate enough to provide great service and good value.

Malcolm Lui:
Awesome. What were the three biggest drivers of year sales growth from 2015 to 2018?

Ryan Wright:
Well, I think the verse it really comes to mind is just being different. So I think that lots of people try and do the same thing that everybody else does. And although there is wisdom in following a path that's been already created, if you're following the exact same path and you're going after a thousand pound gorilla, you're gonna get crushed. So I think it's a combination of following a path that has success, but differentiating yourself enough that there's a unique selling propositions to go against that thousand pound gorilla in the marketplace. So I think that it's the having following a path and being different enough that doesn't take you away from what got that other company successful but makes you competitive against them. So I would say that's the first one.

Malcolm Lui:
Ok, how about number two?

Ryan Wright:
You know, I couldn't and this is not like a plug for the podcast, but really sales is key. You know, it doesn't grow and nothing happens until something sold. And we really do have a different take on sales where sales is a noble pursuit and tells us about helping people understand what they want and what they need and helping provide the right solution to them. So I think having sales, we've done some automation with sales and we've used some technology with sales. And I would say using like introducing S.M. Mass, introducing regardless voicemail, introducing, you know, text drops or, you know, automation, some of that type of stuff so that we can warm people up through the process. I think it's really big.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. And you mentioned your podcast. The podcast is a channel for growing your sales.

Ryan Wright:
It is, yeah. So I'm the host of Income Hacker podcast, and that's a channel for us to reach out to people and build relationships with people we don't know so they can get to know us without without having to give us their information. So when they when they do come, they're more attuned with who we are so that we can acquire better customers that already know like and trust us.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay. Got it. And how about your third driver, number three?

Ryan Wright:
Marketing marketing is changing the way marketing is happening is changing, and so it's the balance between paid marketing and SEO that we're getting not having to pay for that type of traffic. And some offline traffic things that we're doing. So I think the third key really is marketing and making some changes to get lower cost customer acquisition.

Malcolm Lui:
Ok. Going back to your. To number one, being different. Who's that, that thousand pound gorilla in your space? And how are you doing things differently from the.

Ryan Wright:
Yeah, I mean, I hated named her. On a few of them because but there's a few of them. So I think they're there's really two categories. The thousand pound gorillas are going to be either the the coaching companies. So there's companies out there that teach you how to do real estate investing and there's some big ones out there. You know, you've got like your your Robert Kiyosaki or you've got some of your big name type stuff. And they usually hire a company that does the sales and marketing for them. And so they're companies you probably haven't heard of before, but you would have heard of the name brand people. And then you've got companies, big companies that are in the lending space. They're lending nontraditional, nonconforming lending. Lots of those are hedge funds where they've they've got other brands that they're operating under. And so we kind of have a thousand pound gorillas on both sides of the table there, but nobody's done both. But where they say, well, what happened is we started out funding. And when 2008 hit and the crisis happened, it had an effect on us. And we sat back and did a SWOT analysis and said, what's one of our strengths? One of our biggest strengths is our phone rang off the hook.

Ryan Wright:
But the problem was we got to the point, we had to turn the phones off because we had nothing. We could sell those guys. We can add value to them. And it was too expensive because a phone call to reduce calls say, hey, we give me a loan. We'd say, well, if you don't have judgments, collections, these things in the world, we'll give you a loan. We based upon the asset of the property, not the person. And and then we would never hear from them again. And so when we sat back and we were re strategizing, restructuring, we said, why don't we give those guys some value? So we started building out some tools, resources, cart courses, software, and we said, hey, let us give you stuff. You can go find those great properties. And so we've grown from there. And that's probably been one of the biggest things, is that pivot for us of saying we're not just going to be a lender, we're not going to be in the coaching space. We're going to be a hybrid of the two of those, which is unique and different.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. Got it. And in terms of lending, how do you get the capital lent? You have a partner that actually does the lending for you or do you raise money yourself through some sort of fund and then you're just read lending those funds. How does that work?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah. Great question. So we've made the choice to just work with private investors, so we work with accredited investors, provide returns for them. They were able to select deals. You know, I want this deal or that deals with kind of a matching service, an accredited investor can can apply. Be on the platform. We bring deals. They say. Yes. These are the ones I want. We underwrite to certain criteria and then they're able to pick it up. We take care of finding, acquiring, valuing, underwriting and then servicing that asset for them so they can be truly passive investor. And getting, you know, really solid returns secured against first position real estate.

Malcolm Lui:
Now, are you actively seeking those out as well? Or do you have a pool that's sufficient for your needs?

Ryan Wright:
We're always looking for money as we expand or there's new states or we're growing. We're a constantly growing company. We grew a hundred and forty two percent. And so there's there's constantly a need for that. In clarifying, to be really clear, that's not money to be operational capital or investing in our company. It's investing in investments that we're able to to find and that for people. So they're they're owning those assets.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. Got it. Now, how do you find these guys? Or are they coming through to you through an income hacker, your income a hacker podcast as well?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah, I mean, a lot of people. A variety of ways of number one way as we obviously started just with our personal network and, you know, people we met. I started as a real estate agent actually, and helped investors liquidate properties and buy properties. And a lot of them said, hey, I'd rather not have to worry about toilets and management and those things, but I want to make good returns. And so the idea, the concept to hard money lending for some of your listeners may be a little foreign. And I feel like Guido or, you know, something like that that's gonna break your legs. But the concept of hard money lending is lending on the hard asset, not the soft asset. So we look at the property exclusively and if there's enough value in the property. That's how we assess our risk where like a Bank of America or Chase or those types of things assess their risk based upon the ability to repay the loan. We don't really care if the guy can repay the loan. That's not what we're going after. A lot of contractors and those guys might not have great income or it. That's up and down. Real estate agents, it's up and down. Real estate investors, it could be up there. What we care about is, is there value in the property? And if there's value in the property. That's what we use to collateralized against. We typically lend 70 percent of the property value once it's fixed up the RV. And so we have about a 30 percent spread there and that's how we securitize. And so that's one of the things that makes us quite a bit different.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Does that mean that the people who go through your program for funds, they need to come up with 30 percent on their own?

Ryan Wright:
No, actually. If they can find a good enough deal, which is what our system we have some finding systems and softwares and ways to find properties and you know, you can do out-of-state owners. None are occupied finding people that have property. So we teach people to go and find properties that are distressed. And it's either a distressed it's a personal distress or a property distressed, preferably both. So somebody is going through a bankruptcy or in foreclosure or going through a divorce. That's a personal distress. Then we're also looking at property distress. Does the property need work? Is it in bad condition? If so, that property cannot be sold to someone that's going to go to Chase or Bank of America, Wells Fargo or whatever to get a loan. They simply cannot get a loan through those resources because the property is not in a condition to be inhabitable. So those types of places won't do loans and so are our people our members are going after and helping people solve problems. Maybe it's an inherited house or it's a bankruptcy or it's a foreclosure. And they're saying, hey, let me buy the property, I'll take it over. Nobody else can buy it because it needs to be cash or a hard money transaction. And then there take it, taking it and fixing the property up and either reselling it or renting it or something like that. So it's able to solve the problems if they can buy that property. Good enough. If they can buy that property for 70 percent of the after repaired value, the purchase three have the closing costs payments, then we can fund 100 percent of purchase the rehab. And in some cases we can even fund a little bit more than that. If not, let's say the purchase three have the closing costs is over that 70, let's say it's 80 and the property's worth one hundred thousand. Then they'd have to come up with ten thousand dollars. In that scenario, we'd come up with seventy thousand dollars.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Got it. So potentially you could buy a property with very little dollar investment on your side.

Ryan Wright:
Well, and that's one of the things we talk about, we we promote 100 percent financing and you have to find the right property or you have to apply some other strategies. And so some of the other strategies are getting a line of credit. So if you have OK credit, you can get a line of credit. You can also partner. So we have a lot of people that will get a business partner. Some has got money enough for one K or an IRA. Not making much money. And they'll either partner on debt or equity. So they'll get an initial loan from us that we don't allow that partner to secure against the property. So ask to an unsecured ties loan or it has to be they could be part of the LLC that owns the property and have an ownership slot if they want to do like an equity plan. So, you know, everybody's got an Aunt Hilda that's got some money in her for one K or in the bank. Even worse where she's losing money on it. You know, each each year, especially if you look at inflation, that can put up 20 or 30 thousand dollars to make a deal like that happen, which can be a great return for her and can get people started in game. So we focus on ways you can get started with little to no money. And the it really you've got to find a good deal. That's that's kind of the catalyst, which is what our our program helps people do.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now, will we be able to find a property and a well to do area that doesn't really have distressed physical assets and ones that are rundown and in need of repair?

Ryan Wright:
Oh, absolutely. I have not found a zip code like our software will tell us what's in foreclosure, what's in bankruptcy, what's it doesn't matter. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're a million dollar neighborhoods sometime sometimes deserve more in million dollar neighborhoods. I looked up a neighborhood here locally and you know, there's multiple things going on in properties that said it may not be a good investment for you. So just because it's a good deal doesn't mean it's a good deal for everyone. So, you know, you may not want to be investing those. We we teach people to be going after blue collar neighborhoods. And, you know, you want to be in the median price range is not in the high price ranges when when market shift, when things happen, those have the less the least amount of ups and downs, they're affected the least. And also rents and resales stay pretty steady. So we have people go after median price ranges in the area. And if that's unavailable, like a lot of guys from California just have a hard time getting cash flow or finding types of deals or lots of deals to be had in California. If you're flipping or wholesaling, but if you're gonna do a multimillion dollar flip, there's a lot more risk on that. So in those types of care, an area you've got to go outside of the area that you're in or look at out-of-state investing, which is really lucrative, especially if you set up your team correctly.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now, for your members to participate, your program is. Is it a flipping model or is it an investment model?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah. So it's all of the above. So it depends on where you're at. So we try and meet people where they are. Some people come to us and they're just getting started. And so they need to learn the marketing fundamentals. They need to learn the real estate fundamentals. They need to learn finding properties. And they've got to go out there and either spend money on marketing or spend time on marketing, making multiple offers. We have a software called The Next Deal Blueprint, which basically lays out how to find a property in the next 90 days and puts a customized plan together for you and what you want to do. If you want to spend time, you want to spend money. It tells you how many offers you have to make. How many properties you have to visit. A postcard you have to send. Whatever the case is, it puts basically a frame for your search. It's a marketing and sales plan together to get your next deal and how you're gonna go about doing it. That's customized to you and your specific situation. And so, you know, that's that's one of the things. Then from there you start using the tool tools that we have, like investors edge software, which is one of our software, is on finding properties. We know which properties have equity. So we know how much how much everybody owes on their property. So we can we can plug it in and know how much is owed. We would guess at a little bit we'd do a reverse damage reservation. So we have a good idea and then we use an AVM model. So we have an idea what the property's worth. And then that gives me properties I can then market to and then I sub I take that list and look against properties that may be in distress or may be free and clear properties or maybe rental properties or out-of-state owners. And then I can get a really good list of people that I want to target. And so those are some of the types of of unique things that we offer to our to our members.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. But like, would a members lead members user program to buy investment properties for them to find properties that are on offer, the good value? The 30 percent upside. And just simply buy and hold it as an

Ryan Wright:
Oh,

Malcolm Lui:
Investment

Ryan Wright:
Yes.

Malcolm Lui:
Property.

Ryan Wright:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So people will come into wholesale properties, fix and flip properties, buy and hold properties. There is a strategy called a burst strategy where you buy it, you rehab it, then you rent it and then you refinance it so you can get into rental properties with little to no money down as well. When you use a hard money lender because you get a bank refinance because now the property's refinancing bill. And so then you can get into very little money into to a deal for a rental property as well.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Okay, got it. Let's talk a little bit more about driver number two. SALES is key. Talk about Automation S.A. I this voice mails your income hacker podcast. How much of your sales comes from inbound marketing efforts and how much of it comes from outbound efforts?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah. So everything's inbound, so we're not doing outreach. So. Well, I should say this. We're generating leads. We're not buying leads or doing anything else like that. So we may be outreaching to those people, but they reach out. They raise their hand first to us. So we're exclusively generating interest. And so as a lot of your listeners probably know, it's a sales funnel. Right. So the high end of the funnel, it's how can we create value for people? And then the next level of the funnel is what lead magnet can we use? What can we give them? That's high enough value that in exchange they will give us their name, their phone number and their email address. So free book, free report, 7 day trial, whatever the case may be. So we're constantly playing with those types of things. And then from there, it's how do we follow up with these people? So our goal from there is to get them on the phone. So we may ask them to do like a short form, to ask some questions and then give them a scheduling link to schedule or we'll put them in and just call them immediately. One of the things we like to do is call them as soon as the leads generated. So within a minute or two, we've have people say, hey, I would just fill out your form and you called me. I think that instantaneous ness, is it a few people? It's like that was really fast. And I think they're impressed by that and know that we're on top of things. So I think that, you know, utilizing technology to your to your benefit and it can be really helpful in in growing an organization.

Malcolm Lui:
How are you getting people to raise their hand and express interest? What's that? That's the first step there, right?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah. So before the lead magnet, just general interest.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Like,

Ryan Wright:
Okay.

Malcolm Lui:
How are you getting

Ryan Wright:
Yeah.

Malcolm Lui:
People to even find you guys that check you guys out?

Ryan Wright:
Yes.

Malcolm Lui:
Then raise their hand?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah. Great question, most that stuff just done through our SEO efforts, our search engine optimization efforts, and then we'll also do paid efforts as well. So we'll have videos, we'll have intriguing things, things people are like, oh, that's interesting. But even before that, I think getting in front of a crowd that's already interested. So we're not trying to just put a billboard on a 15 and say, hey, here you go. What we're trying to do is get in front of people that have already expressed interest in real estate investing or personal finance or financial freedom. So what we're trying to do is get in front of those people in in whatever groups or circles. So we may be targeting them on Facebook or we may be targeting them on a Google search or we may be targeting them just on a search or Google Page Pate PPC either way. But we're trying to say, where do these people hang out? Where can we find these people that are already talking about this? So we already know for ask a lot of real estate agents, general contractors and loan officers make up probably about half of our of our clientele. And the other half are people that are usually professionals that are looking for, you know, what's my exit strategy look like and how can I grow that exit strategy? Because maybe they're turning 40 or, you know, they're like, what does this look like? What does the endgame look like? And so those types of people will go after. So I think to directly answer your question is where where are our customers hanging out? And so we do a lot of look alike audiences. We take our current customer base and say, what? Where's the lookalike audience for these guys and what keywords are they searching? And then we'll create articles or blogs or videos and those things to try and get the interest. So we're not trying to create the demand. We're trying to get in front of the demand that's already there and show them that we're here.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. You do all this in-house. Do you have partners, they help you with it all.

Ryan Wright:
Yeah. So most of it's done in-house. We do have some relationships, but we have a marketing department and we've got a vice president of marketing and we've got creative and some of those things are in-house. And then we obviously fill that in because marketing their marketing is a lot like surgery. You know, there's a lot of specialization. So it's virtually impossible for us to have every specialist on staff, but we'll kind of we'll have the plan and we'll have the key roles and then we'll delegate out some specialization and then grow from there.

Malcolm Lui:
Ok, E.D., you outsource a lot of your marketing or is it just a small amount?

Ryan Wright:
I'd say probably 30 percent, probably 70 percent in-house, 30 percent out outsource.

Malcolm Lui:
We share what those 30 percent are and why you chose to outsource it as opposed to

Ryan Wright:
Yeah, sure.

Malcolm Lui:
Hiring someone to do it.

Ryan Wright:
Yeah, absolutely. So in-house we've got our vice president of marketing. We've got FCO and Social. So that's that's in-house as well. And then we've got content creation. So writing and in those types things. And then videos are done in-house as well. What we send out is like the video editing is so editing and production. The production is done in-house, but the editing is out. A lot of our podcasts and some of our social advertising is out. A lot of our paid is we've got a Facebook specialist and we've got a Google specialist. The paid is out of the office, but our vice president of marketing oversees that and works with them. We've tried to. We're not working with agencies necessarily, although they are agencies, but they're more, you know, small couple, a couple of people groups. And we like that because they can understand our brand or culture who we are. And so that's that's worked out really well for us rather than hiring agencies. But I think it all depends on the size of your company and what you're trying to achieve. But for us, that's been a good strategy.

Malcolm Lui:
All right, so what's the decision behind outsourcing it? Those those aspects as opposed to bringing someone on board to do it internally?

Ryan Wright:
Great question. We've had it all internal and I've never had an all external. Right now we have the hybrid where mostly internal and some external. I think the there was two big reasons for outsourcing that we got a better quality, better quality work and better results is really what it came down to. What we found is for us anyway, from what we had in an office versus out, we just got better quality that gave better lower cost lead generation and good quality leads as well. And I think it's I think they're more working on their skills are developing. They know that if they're not getting better than they can lose their job faster than someone that's in office. I think some of that's in office, at least from our experience, contend to get a little bit complacent is probably the right word. Where I think some of the ones we've hired, they're out of the office, are constantly learning, growing, looking for the new things, and they realize their job is more jeopardy and it could change tomorrow. Like we don't have big contracts. I could say I'm sorry, we're changing today. And they would be out where I think some people in office feel like it's going to take months. And, you know, before they do, something could happen. And I think they tend to get complacent. I mean, that's a gross overgeneralization. But from our experience, that's been what's what's been working for us as we've as we've transition to hybrid model.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. And your third driver and you've touched about this before, the marketing and your paid versus CEO. What what has been your best channel for generating interested leads so far?

Ryan Wright:
Well, I mean, you can. About 60 percent of our traffic comes from a paid and about 40 percent of our traffic comes from organic is what we call it. So to give you an idea on that, as far as where the paid comes from, it's a variety from Google to being to Facebook to Instagram. So and that changes. It depends on what's happening. So we're watching that daily, obviously. And then we'll over. We'll look at that for the month and see what's happening. The real question is, how do you compete in getting the lowest cost per customer acquisition? That's really the key key to life for I think any business is what does it cost you to acquire a customer? And a few months ago, our cost per customer acquisition was extremely high. And over the last few months, as we've made a few modifications in marketing, we've cut it almost in half, which is unbelievably good. And so one of the things we also did is we looked at our re-engagement, what we call re-engagement. And so I think a big key is capturing the data. So the sooner you can give a lead magnet to someone and you can get their name and their email and get them out of whatever platform they're in, the better. And then you've got to say, how can I engage those people to take them to the next level? So then we're creating our own list. So we've got our own email lists and we've got our own database.

Ryan Wright:
And that's critically important, I believe. And then from there, it's how do we market to them? And another big thing we've had this year is we found that the way we were engaging those people wasn't being reached. The e-mail service we were providing was horrendous. They claim to be amazing. So we had concerns about it because we saw a re-engagement revenue continue to go down. So we did a split test and we took some of our leads and we put it in the one platform, the other platform we emailed the same leads on different days and we saw the open rate and click through rates and those things. And and this platform was horrendous. And so we ended up making a change on the platform. And all of a sudden our open rates and lead and re-engagement and everything just went through the roof along with using as a mass text messaging. I think is just huge. Now, there are regulations around that you have to get opt in for text message, that stuff. But the reality is it's pretty simple. You just say by subscribing, you're giving us authorization to text you as well. I'm not an attorney, but it's something to keep in mind. But it's pretty easy to do from my perspective. And so then we started just some re-engagement efforts. And so I would say for this year, figuring out why re leads weren't reengaging and reengaging them at higher levels using some technology has been really big.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. You find that people like it being marketed to by S.A..

Ryan Wright:
I believe people love to be marketed to if they're interested in what you're offering. So my thing is I don't think you can over communicate because if it's kind of like if you like, I don't know, say say you like boats, you know, and you just love waterskiing, you know, like you want to know everything about water skiing. You want to know the newest thing in the news, this in the news. And I don't care if I get a bunch emails, so I don't think you can over communicate. I think essay mess needs to be personal. I don't think it needs to be blast. And so what we've done, we do very little what we call batch and blast, where we just email or text message. Everybody will occasionally do that for a big announcement or something. But for the most part, the text message is automated, but it's a two way text message and it comes from the last person they spoke with. So when you get the text message, it's like, hey, Malcolm, it's Ryan. Just checking in with you again. I hope you do it. Well, I thought you'd love this article. And if you reply to that and say, oh, this is awesome, it hits my. So the initial one, I didn't know it even went out of the system. But when you say thumbs up, all of a sudden it ends up on my computer as a text message and then I can be like, oh, yeah, what's new in your life? You know, how can I help you? So I think the text has to be personalized and that makes it quite a bit more beneficial.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. You have to tell you that it's a mess. Text messaging that I get from people out of the blue, especially around election season, it just drives me nuts.

Ryan Wright:
I'm with you. Yeah, I'm totally with you. Well, I think that the if your text messaging to traffic go to leads that you purchased, I don't think they care about you. But if I'd text message to somebody that's watch the videos and subscribed and gotten a copy of my book and maybe spoken to somebody here at the office and, you know, it's like, hey, you spoke with Darren. And Darren, it's auto sending from Darren. I think it's a different story than just like, hey, vote for, you know, Billy Bob.

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah, and if the messes are coming from. Nightmare, you mean s a mess? You mean like the phone s a mess. And I've talk about Facebook Messenger and those sort of.

Ryan Wright:
Correct. Yeah. I'm talking about text message.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Okay.

Ryan Wright:
I do think there's a great place for Facebook Messenger. We're not doing a great job with that. I think there is more that can be done there that we're we're missing the boat on. But I'm talking like on your cell phone.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. And how does this show. That's coming from Brian? He's often doesn't I get these SS messages. It's just a phone number.

Ryan Wright:
Yeah, it's a phone number, but I'm putting in the message, you know. You know, from Ryan or, you know. You know, I'm able to address you. Hey, Malcolm. I thought you'd love this article. Let me know if I can help. You know, Ryan and it's coming from my phone number, too. So when the automation goes out, it actually outbound, sends it from my phone number.

Malcolm Lui:
He.

Ryan Wright:
So if you have corresponded with me in the past, you have that phone number. And so they would show it's coming for me. So if you save my number, that would show up. Otherwise, it was show past correspondences or I would just directly reference you and reference myself in that automation. And then when the replies happen, I can I can then continue. But it's coming from my phone number.

Malcolm Lui:
Good. Now the. And apparently the new version of the Apple. IOW, I would ISIS 13 and we'll have a way to block calls from people who aren't in your address book or whose email whose phone number is not in past emails. And I'm not sure they do on the SNF side as well. But if they also do similar sorts of filtering, you'll be in good shape. Right. Because

Ryan Wright:
Yep.

Malcolm Lui:
You've already communicated your your phone numbers already in on the phone somewhere. So.

Ryan Wright:
Yeah.

Malcolm Lui:
So get three.

Ryan Wright:
Yeah. I'm not convinced. I'm with you on that. I'm just non-committal. Yes. I mean, if they've already saved me and their favorites or whatever the case is, which we encourage people to do and we could do on the phone calls, but I'm not as convinced that everybody wants every phone call blocked. I think it's going to lead to other problems like, oh, you know, my kid's school called and they weren't saves on the favor and they called from one of the phone numbers like I. I think that's got a ways to go before it's going to benefit people. I recognize the whole idea is, hey, I don't want spammers calling me on those types of things, but I think there's gonna be a lot of unintended consequences around that, that people are going to try and be like, oh, my goodness, I missed the call from the dentist or whatever. And I think you can. I think people are not going to get the benefit they're looking for out of that, at least at this point.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. When my phone does upgrade, I'm to I'm going to switch it on and see how it works.

Ryan Wright:
Yeah.

Malcolm Lui:
I

Ryan Wright:
Let

Malcolm Lui:
Do

Ryan Wright:
Me know.

Malcolm Lui:
Have this. Yeah. Because

Ryan Wright:
So.

Malcolm Lui:
I mean.

Ryan Wright:
So save me to your favorites before you do that.

Malcolm Lui:
Well, apparently you don't even need to be safe that they. The phone will somehow scan your past e-mails and look for phone numbers

Ryan Wright:
Oh, interesting.

Malcolm Lui:
Within those emails and then those get white listed automatically.

Ryan Wright:
Oh, OK. Yeah. Then

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah.

Ryan Wright:
That wouldn't be an issue either because we'd be emailing them as well. It'll be interesting. It'll be interesting to see how that works.

Malcolm Lui:
Yeah. I mean, if you see a drop off over the next six months, it might be related to this filtering. Maybe because iPhones

Ryan Wright:
Maybe.

Malcolm Lui:
Are very popular. Right.

Ryan Wright:
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. So looking forward a little bit. What are your plans to continue to grow the business?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah, great question. There are several things that we're working on, so we're trying to in the past, we've got a little bit broad and we're trying to get deeper. So we're trying to go deeper into areas. So we're trying to get deeper in to certain states and geographically rather than being broad. So we've gotten a little too broad in some cases, too many states or too many areas. And so we're looking at to get deeper into some of those areas. The second thing that we're looking to do is actually have more product offerings on the lending side where we can offer more lending options. And then the other thing is the income hacker podcast that we're we're going crazy with and trying to promote that into the brand. So our whole thing with income hacker is creating a brand around that with people that can know like and trust us before we even try and get them into our funnels.

Malcolm Lui:
So why is it can have income hacker such a core component in priority free?

Ryan Wright:
We believe that we can get better, so when people come and sign up with us, the struggle that we have is we've got to get the right people, because if we have someone that's like a lottery seeker or a casino wants to be, you know, a slot machine guy, and those guys don't do well in our program and we want good relationships. If they think, oh, I can enroll, I can pay some money and all of a sudden I'm making money and I'm a millionaire and they forget the element of work. And that's really important. And so what we're hoping with our income hacker and growing that is that we can establish the principles and things that need to be done to be successful. Which work is high on the list and then provide the tools and resources. So we were hoping to have a more meaningful customer or more educated customer that's coming in the door so we can better serve that customer long term. So that's one of the big things. And then secondly, we just believe in our mission. Our mission is to help people get to financial freedom, financial independence. And we just believe in the mission. We believe it's possible if you'll take some steps. And so income hacker goes broader than just real estate. It goes through like relationship with money and legacy, teaching your kids financial principles. And then we get into like the intentional spending and side hustles and then we get into like putting your cash flow plans together. So that's that's the big stuff that we're doing there. So I love the concept around that. I think financial financial principles are not taught in this country. I think it's a shame it's not mandatory in schools and we're out to kind of change that.

Malcolm Lui:
Right now, for people to be a member at two hard may not come, is it a paid membership or is it a free membership? How does that work?

Ryan Wright:
Yes. Well, obviously, we've got a variety of different things, but our core is is a paid offering that gives offers to multiple for different software programs, trainings, access to the capital. But depending on what somebody needs. We have different programs. But yes, our whole thing. When people pay, they pay attention. So we have like income hacker has lots of free information where our blog and those types of things. And then from there it's like if you want help getting to the next level. These are the tools and resources you're going to need. And we find people that make an investment. People that pay pay attention, like you said. And then those are the ones that take action and then they utilize the money and that's what they really want. So we really want people to make a commitment to themselves.

Malcolm Lui:
What's whether the price points up your programs?

Ryan Wright:
So they are going to range anywhere we have stuff that's as low as like 50 to several hundred dollars, up to 3000 dollars for you, like a full suite of products.

Malcolm Lui:
This is on a monthly basis. It's

Ryan Wright:
No.

Malcolm Lui:
A one time.

Ryan Wright:
Yeah. So like our three thousand at the moment is six months and some of our other products could be monthly. Could be one time. It just depends on what somebody is looking for. But our our core offering is a a three thousand dollar product that's a six month four different softwares and services and support.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. So also looking forward, what do you foresee as the biggest challenge with what's coming, what's impending wave that you either want to capitalize on or perhaps you want to get out of the way and not get wiped out by it?

Ryan Wright:
Well, I think one of the things that's happened is hedge funds are bringing more and more capital into this alternative lending space. And one of the things that they've done is they've been driving down the cost of capital. So people that were lending money at, you know, I don't know, four points and 15 percent interest or now have to lend money at two or three points and 12 percent interest. And so we're seeing that cost of capital drive down as the hedge funds are coming in. I think it's good and bad news. The good news is, as they see this as a viable investment, which we've been saying for decades, the bad news on it is it's driving the cost of capital down. So one of the things that we've been really focused on is offering more than just cash. If we are offering if we're just offering money, then we're a commodity and we don't want to be a commodity. We actually want to be a full service. So for us, we're going after people that are newer getting started. And it's they can't go to a hedge fund to try and get capital because they don't have experience money down. So we tend to lend to people with no experience, very little money down, not necessarily the best credit. And so that creates an opportunity for us. But I would say the dependent on the horizon is the more influx of hedge fund capital coming into these streams and the disruption that that's starting to cause will continue to cause. And the differentiation for us is to just be a step outside of it where because the hedge funds are really looking for, even though they say they're hard money lenders, they're looking for credit, good credit and experience money down in those things. So not really true hard money lenders. So staying true to the true hard money lender and offering more than just capital makes a big differentiation for us. And I think that the wave of the hedge funds coming is the concern.

Malcolm Lui:
So will you be competitive with the lower cost of capital that the hedge funds are providing or will you provide additional services and

Ryan Wright:
Exactly.

Malcolm Lui:
A bit more costly?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah. No, we don't. Yeah. We don't want to be competitive with the hedge funds. That's not our goal. Our goal is to offer more services. So it's worth the cost. The reality is, if nobody else will lend you money, it doesn't really matter what I charge, as long as I can help you find a deal that you can make a profit. So the question you, what do you charge for funds? The answer typically is how much money are you going to make on the deal? You know. And if you're going to make 30 grand and I'm going to make five grand, is that worth it? Especially if there's nobody else out there that's going to help you? Or allow you to get capital. And then as you get more experience and then you want to start putting money down, then we'll look at lowering cost of funds to become more competitive. But we still want to be a value service provider. We don't want to be Walmart fighting over who is the cheapest money because the commodity business is hard, especially if you're not the 100 pound gorilla in the marketplace.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Got it. Ryan, it's been actually grinders. Before I get into that three, ask questions for you

Ryan Wright:
You've been

Malcolm Lui:
If

Ryan Wright:
At.

Malcolm Lui:
You had a billboard along the freeway. It's only going to be seen for six seconds or less. What would be that billboard message?

Ryan Wright:
Financial freedom ten years or less. Outside the Wall Street Casino.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. So what do you mean by outside the Wall Street Casino?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah. So one of the things we try and do in our marketing is attract the people we want and repel the people we don't. So what we find is most people that want to be stock market investors, day traders, and those things don't make great real estate investors. So we're want people. If you're wanted, do you know that stuff? We don't want you to call us. And if you're pissed off at Wall Street because you lost a bunch of money or there's bad trades or, you know, your stockbroker screwed up or one of the cases that that attracts you to us. So the idea of outside the Wall Street casino gets us the clientele that are looking for alternative investments and not looking for, you know, day trading or stock trading.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. Got it. And can you share again? Who's your ideal members are?

Ryan Wright:
Yes. So about 50 percent of our members are general contractors, real estate agents or mortgage loan officers. The other 50 percent are mid-level employees that are in their mid 40s. It's about 75 percent, 70 percent male, 30 percent female. Age ranges typically 25 to 50, which is pretty broad. And they're looking for alternate investments. And lots of them have had some life circumstance that have happened where they're kind of just a little upset and they're saying, I need to take control of my financial future.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. Are there any other qualifiers that you have?

Ryan Wright:
No. I mean, you've got to have some capital to get started and you've got to be willing to to do the work. That's one of the things we want people that are willing to work. So we're looking for 3, 3, 3 things time, money and motivation. So you got to be willing to put in the time. You're gonna have some money to get started and to continue with your real estate investing endeavors. And then and then you've got to have the motivation because times get rough and you've got to have a big enough y that'll get you through some of the difficulties, because you've got to look at it as almost starting a business. Like there are going to be ups and downs. And the first deal you do is going to be the hardest. But also through income hacker, we actually teach them side hustle ideas that can help you get some additional capital so you can then invest and and start making some of the passive income that you're looking for.

Malcolm Lui:
In regards to the capital this need. How much is that typically?

Ryan Wright:
I think people can get started around five thousand dollars.

Malcolm Lui:
Okay.

Ryan Wright:
We don't want that to be your last five thousand dollars. You know, we don't want that to take food off the table because it is an investment. And sometimes that investment doesn't pay off right away. And sometimes, you know, you have to invest more, you know, and sometimes it takes more time than you think. So you've got to look at it as an investment. But if you put in the time and the work, then the opportunities abound. You've just got to dial it in. And sometimes that involves changing yourself. You might have to develop some sales skills. You might have to find somebody else as sales skills, and you can do something else to add value. So it's it's about understanding yourself and your strengths and understanding what's necessary and getting the baseline and then putting a plan together, which we call the next deal blueprint and executing.

Malcolm Lui:
Right. And how much time do people need?

Ryan Wright:
I think so. Our big thing is you don't need to quit your day job. I believe everybody should have two hats that they wear. They have their investing hat or their long term hat and then they've got their day job hat. So we believe most people shouldn't quit their day job, but lots of people quit it too early. Maybe that's a goal of yours. If so, build up your passive income to exceed what you make in her day job. So the short answer is 10 to 15 hours a week. I just had a guy on my podcast that, you know, as a CFO, you know, he's working like 50, 60 hours and he spends about 10 or 15 hours. And he's on his 22nd second property right now. And he's just been doing it for a few years now. He's hustling, you know, he's getting up, spending a couple hours in the morning for he goes to work, he's doing an hour in the evenings, maybe doing a couple hours on Saturdays. But he's balancing it, balancing the family. And his cash flow is getting to a point where it's almost more than what he's making from his his day job, which is pretty exciting.

Malcolm Lui:
Yes, but you get it for him. All right. Ryan, it's been awesome having you on my show today. You know what? I forgot to ask you one last question.

Ryan Wright:
Yeah.

Malcolm Lui:
What's the best way for your members to contact your company and ask for people who want to listen in on your podcast?

Ryan Wright:
Yeah, absolutely. Just head on over it. You can go to iTunes or stitcher however you listen, income hacker. You can also go to income hacker dot com and subscribe and we'll send you in the newest episodes and those things are coming out. If you're looking for getting started, you can go over to do hard money.com and just click on apply and we can set up a consultation to see if you're in a good position to get started. And if you're somebody with some cash that wants to find some alternative investments, you can. There's a link at the bottom, become a hard money lender, and we can see if that might be a fit for you as well.

Malcolm Lui:
All right. Ryan, it's been awesome to have you on my show today. I really enjoyed hearing how you grew a company so fast.

Ryan Wright:
Thanks, Malcolm, really enjoyed being with you.

Malcolm Lui:
We've been speaking with Ryan Wright, the Founder and CEO of DoHardMoney.com, about his company's rapid growth. For interviews with other fast growing, high value sales companies, or to learn how we can accelerate your firm's high value sales through automation, visit Eversprint.com.

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