Inspiring Real Communications – Abby Leibowitz of Call Experts

Abby Leibowitz, CEO of Call Experts

Abby Leibowitz, the CEO of Call Experts, grew her company’s revenue from $4.4 million in 2014 to $8.4 million in 2017, a 90% increase.  

Call Experts is a customer service, call center, and telephone answering service provider.  

In this interview with Eversprint‘s Malcolm Lui, Abby shares how she and her team accelerated their high value sales by:  

  • Focusing on developing scalable and documentable processes.  
  • Daring to do things differently in-house: “Don’t be a stranger, be strange.”  
  • Shooting bullets, not cannons, when it comes to testing new markets and technologies.  

Computer generated transcript - Call Experts Interview (transcribed by Sonix)

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Malcolm Lui: Welcome to the High Value Sales Show of I'm Malcolm Lui, the Managing Member of Eversprint, and today we're speaking with Abby Leibowitz, the CEO of Call Experts, a customer service, call center, and telephone answering service provider. Welcome to the call Abby.

Abby Leibowitz: Thank you.

Malcolm Lui: Abby, you grew your company's revenue from $4.4 million in 2014 to $8.4 million in 2017, a 90% increase. Before we talk about how you grew your company so fast, can you briefly share what your company does beyond my quick intro, and how your company differs from the competition?

Abby Leibowitz: Glad to we provide outsourced customer service and customer solutions of all types. We take on a business process outsourcing anything and a contact center virtual receptionists and also provide data and analytics for people to understand their customer experience.

Malcolm Lui: How do you differ from the other companies that do something similar

Abby Leibowitz: We do a lot more of a variety of clients so we are very flexible and I think we mostly differ because we're very much real people and we hold everything we do to very high standards and we I think try and bring a bit of a personality back to the call center world.

Malcolm Lui: Right. How do you bring personality back to the call center world

Abby Leibowitz: I think historically the call center world as it's pictured as just a lot of people sitting in cubicles perhaps doing telesales sitting there just pounding on their keyboards and talking and we really like to emphasize that we are real people we just happen to not be in your office with you and we have personality we let it show and try and really emphasize who we are in our culture and everything that we do.

Malcolm Lui: Okay. Now can you give me idea as to how your team works I mean when I think of call center right this narrative a call center is a huge room with banks of people sitting there is that how you're set up as well

Abby Leibowitz: We are set up like that at our main headquarters and we have satellite offices that have a smaller more family like feel. We have that and then we have offices throughout and a lot of open space and a lot of windows and people engaging standup stations leads in every corner

Malcolm Lui: And the way it's setup now do groups of people sit together who are working with one client or are it is their system just brought them to whoever is available and they can pick it up pick up the call and be ready to go.

Abby Leibowitz: So that's a place where we're likely unique from most other call centers and that we do both intertwined. So we have shared teams that we'll take on calls from depending on the call volume and budgets for several different companies. One person can be on a very different call from the person next to them and then we have clients who have a whole team dedicated to just their their company their account and the team could be one whole room together for just that team

Malcolm Lui: Very cool. And your clients so they have pub How big are they. How what's what's the range at the size of your clients you are working with your team.

Abby Leibowitz: That really runs the gamut. We do everything from somebody that the whole company is just one person running the show and we serve as their office and take care of everything except perhaps actual service they go out and do and then we have teams that we have up to 40 people dedicated for just one team

Malcolm Lui: Very cool. And do you do a any sort of a say appointment setting services or do you do any of that sort of work as well or is it just strictly answering phones and and dealing with some well-defined issues.

Abby Leibowitz: In the scope of our projects can differ and definitely some include appointment setting. We don't do outbound telesales we never want to be that person is bugging you at dinner with your family but we will do if some of calling in and setting an appointment we work inside of some of our customer systems in their serums. Just as an extension of their office we're setting appointments responding to their email leads making sure they get that follow up call and booking appointments for them from there. So yes we do appointment setting

Malcolm Lui: All right. And very handy. Can you share with me the three biggest drivers of your growth when you grew from four point four million in 2014 and almost double it three years later to eight point four million

Abby Leibowitz: So in my opinion when I look back and reflect on that time I think about what did we do that really made sure that that contributed to the success that we had since then and continue to have and it seems that we were really focused on having scalable processes. So whatever we did we would put this hat on. OK. Well even if the intention has never been to franchise ourselves if we were going to franchise ourselves and had to be have everything done to achieve what would it look like and how do we create that process. So we really focused on everything we do. But is it scalable. Is it someone else pick it up and do it with while also infusing our culture and brand of extra happiness without becoming like a robot.

Malcolm Lui: Right. OK.

Abby Leibowitz: So that's

Malcolm Lui: So

Abby Leibowitz: One

Malcolm Lui: Number one you are focused on creating and executing scalable processes.

Abby Leibowitz: Correct

Malcolm Lui: Can you think number two. Number three

Abby Leibowitz: Or

Malcolm Lui: Drivers

Abby Leibowitz: I think secondly I would say that we really believe in daring to be different. We. A bad word around here is really consider a whole sad sentence it's because we've always done it that way or oh that's just the way it is. I really don't like hearing things like that because I really believe in questioning and asking why. And that's very ingrained in our culture. So for anyone to say that's just it's like that or just because it sort of has to work that way we don't really accept those we dig into well. Are you sure what's really the line where it has to be that way. What are we protecting what's our goal. And can we do something different. So being willing to ask why and daring to be different is

Malcolm Lui: Right

Abby Leibowitz: A big to.

Malcolm Lui: Now. There's a there's a real famous John F. Kennedy speech or quote along those lines right. I think way back into the space race. You saying he seemed to know about how people were saying that it can't be done. Whereas he would ask the question well why can't it be done right. And just asking that you know why not why can't we do it to get it. And then it happens.

Abby Leibowitz: That sounds like what we have many meetings infused with presidential trivia around here. So

Malcolm Lui: All right. Got another one now for you

Abby Leibowitz: Right in our culture yes

Malcolm Lui: And how about number three

Abby Leibowitz: I would say it's I think there's an idea of we test things and stay open. And sometimes it's referred to as shooting bullets not cannons. So we'll test a lot of things at one time and then once we really get a feel for what's working and where we gauge success and how we gauge success isn't always just revenue it might be what we enjoy doing and what's a good culture fit then we say OK now let's put even more effort towards this. So we very rarely in our time have ever said Yeah I'm going to put all my eggs in one basket here. Instead we've said OK we're gonna be in all these areas we're going to see what works we're gauging success and then we refocus. So I call it the shooting bullets not Cannon's philosophy.

Malcolm Lui: Right. OK so the three drivers of growth one focused on scalable press too daring to be different. We've being willing to ask why or why not to make changes. And number three seeing bullet testing a lot on a smaller scale and then iterating and then when it works out well scaling it out further. That sounds about right

Abby Leibowitz: Yet bullets not cannons.

Malcolm Lui: Bullets not candidate. Yeah OK. And maybe talk a little bit more about each of these. So far no one focusing on scalable processes. I like I like the idea that the phrase imagine how if you were to franchise out your business right do you have systems that you can just give to someone to execute.

Abby Leibowitz: Right.

Malcolm Lui: Can you give an example of some of those systems

Abby Leibowitz: Sure. Well we started very crucially as a family business without that much process really everything could be just reviewed with someone in person someone could be trained just by sitting next to someone else. But as we grew we needed to really document and get a really a way to get a good idea of everything that was going on at one time so that comes with about 10 years ago. And this was still fairly new at the time for smaller companies putting in a customer relationship management system and software. So a CRM system and through that system we have kind of checklists and protocols for everything. We still always want to think and make sure that and understand we were humans making decisions and everything applied so use logic. But you know there's a system for when a new client comes on board with what we've learned and what we need to check on on each point and what we need to test before some of that happens. So a lot of checklists

Malcolm Lui: All right. It is a good book on that checklist run by a doctor I believe

Abby Leibowitz: Yes.

Malcolm Lui: Checklist Manifesto something like that I think

Abby Leibowitz: We've it's really based on and really rooted in the airline industry to

Malcolm Lui: Yeah yeah yeah definitely

Abby Leibowitz: Pilots

Malcolm Lui: Those guys.

Abby Leibowitz: And checklists. Yes.

Malcolm Lui: Yeah.

Abby Leibowitz: We also have a lot of aviation culture here. So

Malcolm Lui: Uh

Abby Leibowitz: There's airplane photos everywhere in this building

Malcolm Lui: Yeah. Or is there. Or. Whereas one of the founding members a aviation enthusiast.

Abby Leibowitz: Yes my actually this is a family business so this company was founded by my father thirty I think thirty seven years ago and he is a pilot for 40 years also

Malcolm Lui: Check checklists are natural for him. Do you have checklist growing up as well.

Abby Leibowitz: Just the flight checklists

Malcolm Lui: Okay. All right. And number two daring to be different. Can you give some examples of how you guys have there to be different.

Abby Leibowitz: Well we really like personality to show we're never you know we don't like stuffy bureaucracy and so we really like to say to people. A common phrase around here is don't be a stranger. Just be strange and we really are race to we. It's a culture it's a family business we say express yourself. What would you do to give that an extra touch. And we really don't do things just because other people are doing them it's that question of asking why and does it fit our values and if it does then go for it and run with a new idea. We really like new ideas

Malcolm Lui: Okay now I am a things that are done internally or also even externally with your client work

Abby Leibowitz: Mostly internally with our client work since we're really reproducing systems that our clients either already have or we have to fit into their brand and their system. It can be a challenge to execute in the way that we want to. We would want to execute for our client so we really internally we have a culture and then it's you know we adapt to what our customers want. So we're playing different roles and representing different brands like one after the other.

Malcolm Lui: Okay.

Abby Leibowitz: So it's more internal.

Malcolm Lui: Yep. He gave an example of of recently about how someone dared to be different and ask why.

Abby Leibowitz: Let's see. We did just have a great experience out at one of our in one of the organizations we're involved with. We're out at a trade show and instead of standing behind a booth we came out there and matching tracksuits to show our culture and our interest and said Well you said suits so we'll wear these goods and we definitely got. A lot of attention and I think maybe even a bit of jealousy for people who maybe weren't as comfortable

Malcolm Lui: He had definitely it gets pretty tiring

Abby Leibowitz: With us

Malcolm Lui: Standing up all day.

Abby Leibowitz: Because we said why not. There's no rule against this and why not go this way. We had people stopping us taking pictures taking them back to their marketing teams at home and with a bit of I think fashion envy.

Malcolm Lui: Yeah definitely. And comfort envy

Abby Leibowitz: Yes.

Malcolm Lui: And having to wear a comfortable dress

Abby Leibowitz: Yes.

Malcolm Lui: Shoes all day long for days on end.

Abby Leibowitz: Yes

Malcolm Lui: Rule number three. Shooting bullets not cannons. He can talk a little bit more about that

Abby Leibowitz: And I think we're a great business to do something like that because we know we we are a jack of all trades around here. We work in a lot of different industries used to work for many different sized companies and we do different functions for these companies. Some of these companies want us to really be their phone call center some bonus to just answer after hours and then we could be doing anything for them. And so we also can experiment with different industries where we comfortable where what our knowledge in this industry what other similar industry with this go well into. So we're able to attend a certain type of trade show and see if there's room for us in that industry while at the same time maybe exploring something else. And we do everything from basic phone answering to we've done complete consulting and helping install systems in smaller call centers for some of our customers. And we'll do it all. And right now we're getting into a lot of new stuff again with a I am analytics customer questions and IVR so always doing a little bit of all of it to see what's going to stick. Never

Malcolm Lui: Right

Abby Leibowitz: Putting eggs in one basket

Malcolm Lui: Yeah. Makes sense. The market's always changing as well.

Abby Leibowitz: I think over time diversifying has always been a good habit for anyone in managing their finances. So it seems that translated well to managing the way our company is going to invest our time

Malcolm Lui: Yep. Looking a little bit forward now. Me know if you're comfortable sharing this as well. How is 2018 for you growth wise that you continue your steady growth pace

Abby Leibowitz: Two thousand eighteen was a challenging year actually. One of the more challenging years we've had in a while it was time to read more of our processes again. I think at a certain stage no matter what you try as much as you feel like you're growing you have to redo everything again pretty much at these different points of growth. Just because just doesn't work anymore new things need to be combined or technology change. So now there's a system to replace it and you can put the human talent somewhere else so 2018 was a good year after some major growth to stop and say OK do we want to continue growing this way. What are the problems we have today and they'll always be problems. It's just which ones you want to deal with. Are these the problems we wanted to deal with or do we want to create some solutions to be is and focus on focus elsewhere. So 2018 was a big year for that it was building out more of our executive team splitting positions as we never had before and preparing for the future again

Malcolm Lui: Right. Okay so you're saying so is 2013 a positive growth year as well and just slower than before. Or one where you do not focus on growth as much as he did in the past.

Abby Leibowitz: We focused more on organization and regrouping and slowed down some of the growth but we still had a positive growth year overall just not

Malcolm Lui: All right.

Abby Leibowitz: As big as in the past

Malcolm Lui: Right. Well it was pretty big in the past. The

Abby Leibowitz: Right.

Malcolm Lui: Slug. Not a lot of it's still pretty good

Abby Leibowitz: Yes it is time to slow down

Malcolm Lui: Hip hop over 2019. What are you targeting for 2019 muddy or whether you're a target on the wall.

Abby Leibowitz: And 2019. We're really committed to making sure we're providing as much value as possible for our customers and being as efficient as we can be by leveraging new technology that's now seems to exponentially be growing so things like bringing in a lot more of an analytical approach to help guide them through how they can use us in the best way what their customers are asking for they may not have had access to in the past. There are all these new technologies that can quickly transcribe things like probably how this interview will be done and really take meaning from words analyze them create business answers and we're using a lot more of that and a lot more automation so the human talent can be focused in a different way on doing more for the customers instead of doing things that really a computer system could replicate.

Malcolm Lui: Okay and how about in terms of growth targets. Do you have any particular growth targets in mind for sales in 2019.

Abby Leibowitz: Now we don't set a specific number we just check in every quarter and see how we're doing and see what's sticks and see if we want to focus

Malcolm Lui: Okay.

Abby Leibowitz: On one thing in particular

Malcolm Lui: So how do you go about finding new customers.

Abby Leibowitz: We go about getting new customers through referrals. Word of mouth and we do a CEO optimize our Web site and we also we really care about being more of A consultant to our customers and using the knowledge and experience we have from all the years about what works best. So we really built a resource library and we blog about the different things that we've learned and found and find that people ask us questions we'll answer questions even if somebody is not signing up for service with us to guide them through the process and oftentimes they end up coming back when they're ready for it. We have a lot of strategic partnerships where people are really happy with our work so they recommend us and look to us to create a program for them. We also belong to a lot of organizations locally and internationally. And we have a good reputation in our industry. So we even have a lot of colleagues who will send us business and turned us off with something that they don't traditionally handle

Malcolm Lui: I see that you're nudging a lot of paper like advertising or none as far as I can tell.

Abby Leibowitz: Yeah.

Malcolm Lui: What's your thought behind that.

Abby Leibowitz: So we do where we want to revamp some of our marketing. But historically we found that the call center pay per click advertising is so geared towards call center jobs that it's just insanely expensive and there's not a great eye on it. So many people search for it that way and a lot of potential employees use up those clicks. So we in the past just had never found that it was a good value for us. Maybe with algorithms these days or refresh anyone who does marketing really well listening months to give me some tips we could get into that again but we really like to focus on organic SEO and doing things as naturally as we can that which we haven't done it really

Malcolm Lui: Okay.

Abby Leibowitz: Very minimally. We've tested some campaigns over time as we test things in China things but never a huge campaign

Malcolm Lui: Right. Have you tried other online marketing channels besides SEO

Abby Leibowitz: Not that many. Now I think that's stuff was talking about really within the last six months and thinking about for this year how to really expand our footprint because we actually have not done a lot of traditional marketing that some other companies do. And we really didn't even start using the word marketing until the last couple of years. Even with all this growth which is now everyone does things a different way that kind of started thinking how if we had paid attention to that I wonder what the numbers would have been. We really never paid attention to traditional marketing patterns and sources and using that

Malcolm Lui: Yeah. Well I

Abby Leibowitz: Now

Malcolm Lui: Imagine

Abby Leibowitz: We are

Malcolm Lui: Once. Yeah I imagine once to get it out in it's you it's really going to accelerate your growth

Abby Leibowitz: Yeah

Malcolm Lui: Even further because you really have a platform that's called growing well organically right now you're just

Abby Leibowitz: All right.

Malcolm Lui: Getting the word out and making it easier for people to find you. And that should grow growth even faster. Any particular challenges that you see in 2019 that you need to overcome.

Abby Leibowitz: To think the workforce challenges it's hard to find great people who fit the culture especially with the traditional stereotypes I think about call center jobs a lot of people think I don't want to work in a call center based on either getting sales calls that interrupt them at dinner or calling in to someone I'm having a bad experience so they don't really think about that as a career when really it's a really neat way to learn a lot about things. Talk to people engage with them all day. And so it's hard to find great people and especially we're in a very wonderful city which I'm grateful for. And that's always growing. But that means there's more and more companies coming here too. So it is a challenge. Recruiting and keeping up with all the technology it's really easy for a company to come out now and use a good marketing firm and get online and look a certain way. And sometimes it can take customers a while to find out that they're not who they are behind it whereas we've been here for well over three decades. So things like that. I think I'm making sure we use the new technologies in a good way and making sure our recruiting and our message stays clear so that we get the right call experts agents in the seats to help our customers.

Malcolm Lui: Yeah I have to say when you encounter a company that has a call agents or customer service team that's really responsive and gets and solves a problem right away as opposed to having you go through a menu system or tossing around from people to people. It's refreshing and you remember that

Abby Leibowitz: Yes. Thank you. That is but good at.

Malcolm Lui: Yeah.

Abby Leibowitz: Now they're into marketing. I'm going to make note of that

Malcolm Lui: Yeah. Definitely. I mean you mean like it's some huge companies did so well. I mean

Abby Leibowitz: Right

Malcolm Lui: On occasion I've spoken to Amazon's customer service I mean they're enormous right but yet they

Abby Leibowitz: Right.

Malcolm Lui: Figured it out. And now you want to talk to someone you take a look at a button and someone calls you within seconds who's able to help you right away. Which is nice.

Abby Leibowitz: Exactly.

Malcolm Lui: Unlike

Abby Leibowitz: Yeah.

Malcolm Lui: Maybe

Abby Leibowitz: I

Malcolm Lui: Other

Abby Leibowitz: Look up to Nunzio.

Malcolm Lui: Than

Abby Leibowitz: I agree

Malcolm Lui: That. So now you talked about about being hard to find great people. Is that a constraint in your growth.

Abby Leibowitz: I know it snot really stopping us with our growth because we do have two other locations and we just gauge where we are with. So with those I guess that's another area that we basically diversify and I guess it's another part of our well it's Cannon strategy that we're in three different areas. So we we've been fine but I don't think it's I don't think that in particular has hurt our growth. It would just make some of our internal operations a bit smoother and our know our H.R. department would like it if we could find

Malcolm Lui: Yeah.

Abby Leibowitz: More so

Malcolm Lui: Now are you finding that the people who go through COO come through the door at the end the day you hire them and it works out really well. Or do you find that one of the challenges is maybe doing better filtering so that you have better retention rates and and better hires right.

Abby Leibowitz: I think it's a little bit of both. I think through the years we've tried almost everything every type of pre-employment testing every type of survey doing none of them because maybe that's what turns people off doing in-person video group in every single interviews We really do test a lot. So I don't know that one thing really makes a difference what we've really just found is we could schedule 40 people to come in for an interview and depending on the month or the weather three people could come even if they've done all their testing or most of them could come. It just seems there's no real method to this madness here. So we just with the filtering we found as much as what we do some people are also really good at interviewing

Malcolm Lui: Yeah.

Abby Leibowitz: So you know

Malcolm Lui: That's

Abby Leibowitz: It's

Malcolm Lui: An

Abby Leibowitz: Just

Malcolm Lui: Art

Abby Leibowitz: Really you know refining what the right fit is and we're always working on that.

Malcolm Lui: How about once you hire them define that they your hires generally work out well or do you find that after they do the work they go. This isn't for me.

Abby Leibowitz: I'd say most of them do turn out well unless we are in kind of a hiring crunch and didn't do as you know didn't do as much of the screening as we would have wanted then they do tend to work out. I mean usually if they don't work out it's very early on. Like in the first week or two and they were just someone who was very good at interviewing or wasn't really sure what they wanted and after someone is here for a while. We have very good retention and turnover I mean most of our team has been here and gets through training the initial and the initial training and initial introduction and they're here for a long time and move up within the company

Malcolm Lui: All right. What kind of attention do you have of your staff or or how many you leave your firm. What kind of rate what kind of numbers do you have.

Abby Leibowitz: And we have. I don't think anyone's really ever left our executive team which is nice. And then from there I mean it's very rare agents. We have some people who've been here 18 years. A lot of age I think the average agent which isn't you know it's an entry level job too and a lot of people do it part time or while they're in school. But I think it's really about three years someone's here after

Malcolm Lui: Okay

Abby Leibowitz: They get through that initial introductory period from there and then a lot of it almost all of our middle management is promoted from an internal started as a call center agent even programmers account managers even billing and recruiters all started as agents

Malcolm Lui: Right. Yeah. They all understand your business

Abby Leibowitz: Yes. And a lot

Malcolm Lui: Though.

Abby Leibowitz: Of people go between departments too. So say they're interested in something or feeling antsy about a new career which just happens you know as good as the job is. People seek change and seek growing. So we have our best account managers at one point what were supervisors or trainers and having that knowledge about different areas of the business in a business that's always moving and changing has really helps them be successful and give us new insights.

Malcolm Lui: Right.

Abby Leibowitz: Teach

Malcolm Lui: So at the agent level you do expect churn rate because you know some people are just doing this as a as you know

Abby Leibowitz: Yes

Malcolm Lui: As you said as you're going through college right as a job. But some some stay on beyond that. Yeah I mean I kind of in my mind I'm thinking most people have no idea what what it is what the job entails being a call center

Abby Leibowitz: Ray

Malcolm Lui: Agent. Right. And you know I've say I've done work I'm on the phone a lot. Right. But not as much as a call has a college in is it

Abby Leibowitz: Ray

Malcolm Lui: Like in the span of an hour of those minutes. How many of those minutes are they actually talking to someone

Abby Leibowitz: Also the optimum utilization for an agent. You know enough to stay busy for and so you can be profitable but not too much to get burned out is between 70 and 80 percent

Malcolm Lui: Ok.

Abby Leibowitz: Time.

Malcolm Lui: So forty five minutes out of an hour. They'll be Izzy

Abby Leibowitz: Yeah probably more for us. We tend around 40

Malcolm Lui: In my busy I mean they're on the phone or it might mean they're entering data into the CRM and so on.

Abby Leibowitz: The majority of the time should be on the phone because we want to do whatever we can to make that call efficient but there is time after a phone call where they may be classifying calls and doing some wrap up so they may not be live speaking in that whole time. I would guess on average maybe 30 to 35 minutes live speaking the rest would be wrap up between calls of

Malcolm Lui: Right.

Abby Leibowitz: The

Malcolm Lui: Ok. Now you talked about quite a bit about changes. You talk about technology changes. What other changes are DC in your industry doesn't have to be technology related maybe just changes in how people like to interact with customer service for example. Right. What do you see evolving.

Abby Leibowitz: Well there are just so many different channels now for people to engage with businesses. Right now it's almost overload and I think some businesses are businesses are choosing I think it first businesses felt like they had to be absolutely everywhere. Things are being a bit more selective now and not feeling like they have to be on every social media channel. Does it make sense for them to be on Instagram or not. But mostly people just really want immediacy and they want to be able to find them everywhere so to keep up with that. The big buzz words now are omnichannel and being able to integrate all those pieces in one place for a call center agent. So I think it's less phone more everything else

Malcolm Lui: This is one company that I was trying to find a phone number for they did a really good job not having a phone number anyway.

Abby Leibowitz: Mariana.

Malcolm Lui: And there were a good sized company I mean they were a multimillion dollar business. Right. But they made a decision that we do not want people calling us. So but they did but they did have other channels available for you to reach them right. They had a Facebook message for the live people behind it so that you could contact them that way. This was the first company have encountered that literally had no phone number anywhere.

Abby Leibowitz: It's so interesting you said that because I've seen both and I'm seeing companies that they don't want you to email because I think they feel people just really you know really quickly and a lot of times in email we found actually takes a company a lot longer than a phone call because you're going back and forth and oftentimes people are not clear in their first email. The resolution takes a lot longer people think e-mails more immediate but it's actually not it's just more in our culture because we're all multitasking. It's easier to send an e-mail to sit on the phone so people think that. But then there's companies that so I found companies that are hiding phone number and I'm finding companies also that are hiding any ability to email and chat. So it's interesting you're seeing both sides of it happen

Malcolm Lui: Yeah I have seen that soon and I really find it annoying when I need to talk to someone live to resolve an issue. Because I know it's I know in my mind I may have to wait. Right. I'd rather send an e-mail and you have to get back to me later.

Abby Leibowitz: Yes. Yeah it's funny I get annoyed both ways depending on what I want so I'm

Malcolm Lui: Yeah

Abby Leibowitz: Either the ideal customer or the worst customer. I don't know

Malcolm Lui: And I guess I can flip flop too between the nature of the issue that you have. Right. Finding something that needs to be fixed right now. I mean I love having chat and I would just hate if I have to go through e-mail. But then at the other hand right if I have something that doesn't require my time. Yeah. I prefer e-mail and not be forced the chat. So yeah I can see how there's a difference in applications. So

Abby Leibowitz: Sure. And I think there's a distrust in there too. I think you know as call centers and phone support and things became more digital there was a lot more call center and virtual work. So you know as times have changed and people were getting services on the internet so you might much more often be dealing with someone not there and having to call for support and do things virtually. People would call and have these really negative experiences and so many things in our culture and jokes or about things being outsourced to other countries and all the call center mediums and cartoons about not being able to understand someone or getting lost in a phone tree. So I think there's this idea and like people roll their eyes on going to college a call center and it's gonna be so frustrating and we're going to talk to and I'm going to get passed around different times so companies are really trying to rebound from that. I think Amazon which you mentioned before has really done a good job about showing how a huge company can still have very personal customer service

Malcolm Lui: Oh yeah. And and I've even chatted with some of the customer service. Ask them where they are right and they'd like sitting in South Africa literally right in Johannesburg

Abby Leibowitz: Great

Malcolm Lui: Or something. And that you know they're well trained up. They knew what they were doing and it was a fantastic experience. And the guy said he just loved his work. He's like Oh yeah I love working here. I love the job.

Abby Leibowitz: Yeah.

Malcolm Lui: It's working great for everyone.

Abby Leibowitz: So interesting

Malcolm Lui: Yeah. So. So in three years now. Say when we were talking again in three years what would have to happen over the past three years. That would make you really happy with the progress.

Abby Leibowitz: I would like to have these new technologies implemented seamlessly out there for our customers and be consistently delivering to customers in all of these new ways with data and analytics things that are helping them make business decisions and have every account set up in a way that's definitely giving the customer the most value that they can see and measure and see how we're making a huge impact for them and have that be really simple and clean

Malcolm Lui: How about the size of your company and you expect that you'll be roughly the same size. You think you're going to have 10 locations scattered throughout North America. Any thoughts on that

Abby Leibowitz: You know what. I don't want to make something up for this interview. I definitely don't really think of things that way. Maybe that's that number for a driver of success that we've had. We kind of have stayed open minded to what opportunities are going to come and gone after them. We have an idea that we'd like to be always just be better at what we're doing. Always be having more fun than before. Be cleaner and simpler so we're using our time in good ways. But beyond that we don't set specific revenue goals and we don't set specific a specific way for us to look because we want to always be using the best of what's in front of us and making the decision at that time

Malcolm Lui: Right. Okay got it. Three last questions for you. So the first one. Say you decide to do one of your tests one of your shooting bullets instead of Canada you do a test of a billboard along a fast moving freeway in need in the near your office or perhaps near near one of your target markets. What would your message say on that billboard. And people generally only have six seconds to see a billboard before they drive by. So what would be your billboard message

Abby Leibowitz: As call experts to our customers. I would say inspire real communication.

Malcolm Lui: Inspiring communications. Okay you actually had. As we're doing our conversation. If you had quite a few few thoughts that I thought would make good billboard messages I think what was the one about being strange as I was one

Abby Leibowitz: Don't be a stranger. Just be strange.

Malcolm Lui: Yeah I could not win a bigger billboard message. Well and the final two questions Who are your ideal customers and our clients and what's the best way for them to contact your team.

Abby Leibowitz: Sure. Ideal customers are people who value quality and value and want to get the most for their teams and really people in the in the growth space to need someone who can grow with them. Particularly certain industries that we're really good at are in H.R. utilities and home services. Those are really our strong industries where we have a lot of experience and we are available all the time. We are always open of course we're 24/7. The best way is either by phone and I'm sure our phone numbers published somewhere here or email info at call experts dot com.

Malcolm Lui: Okay. If you want to share your phone number here.

Abby Leibowitz: Sure.

Malcolm Lui: Go right ahead.

Abby Leibowitz: 1 800 3 7 4 0 9 1 1.

Malcolm Lui: Abby it's an awesome having you on my show today I really enjoyed hearing how you grew a company so fast.

Abby Leibowitz: Thanks for having me. This was fun.

Malcolm Lui: We've been speaking with Abby Leibowitz, the CEO of Call Experts, about her company's rapid growth. For interviews with other fast growing, high value sales companies, or to learn how we can accelerate your firm's high value sales through automation, visit

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